Sabaton dropped a new video - "1916"

[kdahm]

Sabaton released a new one about the Battle of the Somme in 1916. While we do have a Media subboard, I thought it fit better here.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/HgGhhnQB1gw[/youtube]

There are few words.....

[Pdf27]

There are few words.....

I have a few about that video. None of them polite!

[Jotun]

What do you think is wrong about that video? Before you go off, it obviously has the blessing of the surviving members of Motörhead. They cameoed in the video.
I think the song is a good, respectful cover version, and the video is well made.

[Pdf27]

No issues with the song itself or the Motörhead bits. 1st July 1916 was the bloodiest day in the history of the British army (made more traumatic by the continued use of Pal's Battalions at the time) - and they depict it with US flags and troops in US WW2 uniform for several chunks of the video action sequences. That's really problematic for me.
Some bits were very good - the inclusion of a Black solider in French WW1 uniform in the bit going down the street was great since they actually fought on the Somme - but the prominence given to US troops jars very badly given how explicitly the song is about the Somme. The "Roman" costumes feel like tokenism to justify that "it's about all wars really", which the song really isn't at all.

[Sukhoiman]

Have to agree with pdf here, that roman/greek stuff is over the top.

The song itself is (aesthetically) a decent take on motorhead version, but I much prefer the original here along with its very downbeat saddening "quieter" sound that lemmy really invested into it.

[Sukhoiman]

Really dont like the inclusion of the Indian flag either.

That flag, its story and context is a whole different thing to (Indians participating in) WW1 and WW2.

They were not fighting for that flag essentially as it did not exist at that time and its subject of quite strong emotional debate (to put things mildly) when this topic of WW1,WW2 and british indian army comes up

[Simon Darkshade]

I can definitely see how the non-WW1 elements would be a bit jarring to some, me included.

I don't think their inclusion is motivated by anything base, just Sabaton's way of late of how they represent conflicts, but some things aren't universal experiences, rather very specific ones. By giving it that universality, it loses a bit of the specificity that makes some of their earlier work great, such as 40 to 1. Perhaps it is motivated to some extent by it not being a Swedish battle or Swedish war and viewing the Somme from that external perspective; it is easy to miss the point when outside the window looking in.

Weighed up against it is the section that comes after the music video proper - the mini documentary. That shows that they get it in part, at least insofar as paying tribute to Lemmy. That section does shift me towards it being meant as a heartfelt tribute, but something being lost in the translation, as it were, leading to the notes that are discordant to those of us from countries to whom the Somme isn't something that happened to foreigners.

So I would agree with everything Jotun said in his analysis, whilst seeing what others would find problematic in it; not really having emotional responses, it isn't a major thing for me either way.

[Jotun]

My countrymen were on the other side of that battle. That battle was over a hundred years ago and I refuse to be emotional about it.
What I feel about that song (the original as well as Sabaton‘s superb cover) is an overwhelming empathy for the PBI who were verheizt[1], for basically a few square miles of mud, to put not all too subtle a moniker on that godawful mess.
The video tries to be impartial about it and indeed is laying it on a bit too thick. If at all, they should have incuded German PBI. Not US paras, Romans or goddamn Spartans.
I think we all can agree that the enlisted men on both sides suffered more than enough.

[1] verheizen, v.: To burn something for heat. A secondary meaning is pissing away soldiers‘ lives.

[Johnnie Lyle]

It’s particularly jarring when juxtaposed with the Christmas Truce Sabaton video, which is much more visually focused on the British, French and Germans of 1914.

[Sukhoiman]

I can definitely see how the non-WW1 elements would be a bit jarring to some, me included.

I don't think their inclusion is motivated by anything base, just Sabaton's way of late of how they represent conflicts, but some things aren't universal experiences, rather very specific ones. By giving it that universality, it loses a bit of the specificity that makes some of their earlier work great, such as 40 to 1. Perhaps it is motivated to some extent by it not being a Swedish battle or Swedish war and viewing the Somme from that external perspective; it is easy to miss the point when outside the window looking in.

Weighed up against it is the section that comes after the music video proper - the mini documentary. That shows that they get it in part, at least insofar as paying tribute to Lemmy. That section does shift me towards it being meant as a heartfelt tribute, but something being lost in the translation, as it were, leading to the notes that are discordant to those of us from countries to whom the Somme isn't something that happened to foreigners.

So I would agree with everything Jotun said in his analysis, whilst seeing what others would find problematic in it; not really having emotional responses, it isn't a major thing for me either way.

Yeah I agree, I love Sabaton stuff in general and see zero malice or anything like that here or any of their output in general.

Its just matter of taste and preference in end, this one didnt hit all the boxes I generally have for them. There were some other stuff they've done before that was hit and miss on me in various ways....compared to their apex stuff that is all 100% or close to it for me.

[Johnnie Lyle]

I can definitely see how the non-WW1 elements would be a bit jarring to some, me included.

I don't think their inclusion is motivated by anything base, just Sabaton's way of late of how they represent conflicts, but some things aren't universal experiences, rather very specific ones. By giving it that universality, it loses a bit of the specificity that makes some of their earlier work great, such as 40 to 1. Perhaps it is motivated to some extent by it not being a Swedish battle or Swedish war and viewing the Somme from that external perspective; it is easy to miss the point when outside the window looking in.

Weighed up against it is the section that comes after the music video proper - the mini documentary. That shows that they get it in part, at least insofar as paying tribute to Lemmy. That section does shift me towards it being meant as a heartfelt tribute, but something being lost in the translation, as it were, leading to the notes that are discordant to those of us from countries to whom the Somme isn't something that happened to foreigners.

So I would agree with everything Jotun said in his analysis, whilst seeing what others would find problematic in it; not really having emotional responses, it isn't a major thing for me either way.

Yeah I agree, I love Sabaton stuff in general and see zero malice or anything like that here or any of their output in general.

Its just matter of taste and preference in end, this one didnt hit all the boxes I generally have for them. There were some other stuff they've done before that was hit and miss on me in various ways....compared to their apex stuff that is all 100% or close to it for me.

It’s a good lesson in the dangers of looking at certain cultural milestones as an outsider.

[Jotun]

After watching the gideo a few more times I realized that most of what is going on in the video references older Sabaton songs. We see a Soviet female pilot gazing at planes, another female soldier comes from the dark, we see twomAirjorne soldiers (Screaming Eagles), we see two WW1 planes overhead, the B-17 from No Bullets Fly, we see a car not unlike the one Archduke Franz Ferdinand was shot in, and so on and so forth. And the red bus in the beginning is a reference to Motörhead‘s No Sleep till Hammersmith.

Make of that what you will.

[Johnnie Lyle]

After watching the gideo a few more times I realized that most of what is going on in the video references older Sabaton songs. We see a Soviet female pilot gazing at planes, another female soldier comes from the dark, we see twomAirjorne soldiers (Screaming Eagles), we see two WW1 planes overhead, the B-17 from No Bullets Fly, we see a car not unlike the one Archduke Franz Ferdinand was shot in, and so on and so forth. And the red bus in the beginning is a reference to Motörhead‘s No Sleep till Hammersmith.

Make of that what you will.

Clip show :p

Must have budget problems

[Micael]

There’s a behind scenes documentary up on the making of the music video. Explains the reasoning behind it. I’ll note that it seems that everyone involved, from the director and producers down to the extras, appears to be Brits…

[OSCSSW]

What do you think is wrong about that video? Before you go off, it obviously has the blessing of the surviving members of Motörhead. They cameoed in the video.
I think the song is a good, respectful cover version, and the video is well made.

I agree with Jotun Verdammt, sagte der Seemann (hope I got that right)

In fact, it really touched me while I was sober , and that is not easy. FWIW, I am a BIG fan of Sabaton's consistently excellent work. IMNSHO, Heavy Metal just does not get any better.

I also second "What do you think is wrong about that video?"

[OSCSSW]

Have to agree with pdf here, that roman/greek stuff is over the top.

The song itself is (aesthetically) a decent take on motorhead version, but I much prefer the original here along with its very downbeat saddening "quieter" sound that lemmy really invested into it.

I loved the depiction of soldiers throughout history. It was about young men dying for their country. Sure it was titled 1916 because most of it was about YOUR YOUNG MEN. If anything, a case could be made the UK was overly represented.

Before you go ballistic, that is a very poor case and so is the basis of your hurt feelings.
Enough said and now turn too and get back to work.

[Sukhoiman]

I loved the depiction of soldiers throughout history. It was about young men dying for their country. Sure it was titled 1916 because most of it was about YOUR YOUNG MEN. If anything, a case could be made the UK was overly represented.

Its grown on me after a few more views/listens. It was just my initial reaction earlier. I understand where you are coming from senior chief.

[Johnnie Lyle]

Have to agree with pdf here, that roman/greek stuff is over the top.

The song itself is (aesthetically) a decent take on motorhead version, but I much prefer the original here along with its very downbeat saddening "quieter" sound that lemmy really invested into it.

I loved the depiction of soldiers throughout history. It was about young men dying for their country. Sure it was titled 1916 because most of it was about YOUR YOUNG MEN. If anything, a case could be made the UK was overly represented.

Before you go ballistic, that is a very poor case and so is the basis of your hurt feelings.
Enough said and now turn too and get back to work.

PDF hits the nail on the head. The use of 1916 and Somme imagery ties it to a very specific British experience and a very specific British trauma.

Yet there’s a lot of Americana in the video, such as American flags flying and images of American paratroopers in Normandy. It also takes Somme imagery and then starts putting in people who weren’t part of the British experience into the imagery. That doesn’t fit the Somme, since the Somme is not our story.

Putting the Union Jack and Falklands imagery into a song called 1968 that claims to commemorate Hue City would be a similarly poor choice. People who weren’t there but had their own time in hell can understand it because of their own time in hell, but - for good or ill - they’re not part of that story.

While the song is trying to be universal (they lyrics generally are), and the concept of doing our time in hell is universal, they did a bad job going from specific to general.

Everybody has those specific cultural touchstones, and they often don’t make sense to outsiders. So it can work perfectly well for us, since we’re not British and so don’t have the same emotional response, but not for him. It might even work perfectly well for British Zoomers, but not for millennials or older Brits - especially if those cultural touchstones are changing.

We’ve had Somme discussions on older iterations of the Board and had many similar discussions - the Somme is something very specific that has left a very lasting scar on many Brits, even generations afterwards. We don’t have to feel the same way ir even agree it’s correct (as Jotun rightfully points out from the other side) to get why it rubs PDF wrong.

[OSCSSW]

Johnnie Ironic that you should use Hue to illustrate your point. Enough said about that.
I still don't buy the tantrums over what I consider a damn good song that actually touched my cold black heart. That is not easy, when I a sober!

I guess you and I will just have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings

Speaking of damn fine music. I would like to recommend a German group of ballad singers I just came accross recently . Santiano

There a six-member group who make a rootsy blend of sea shanties, European folk, schlager, and contemporary pop music. Their name comes from Hughes Aufray's 1961 single, Santiano. Included in the band are vocalist/guitarist Hans Hinrichsen Timm, vocalist/harmonica player Axel Stosberg, vocalist/guitarist Björn Both, vocalist/guitarist Andreas Fahnert, and violinist Pete Sage.

Here is a simple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDk8Ylvv7LI

[Johnnie Lyle]

Johnnie Ironic that you should use Hue to illustrate your point. Enough said about that.

Vietnam or the Global War on Terrorism is probably the closest we can get in the US to how a lot of our British cousins feel about WWI, especially the Somme.

We’re very fortunate we have not had to bear that particular burden. We have never had to pay that particular butcher’s bill, and the wars where we have come remotely close to that butcher’s bill were the Civil War or WWII, both of which have a much more successful outcome, while our own WWI experience is largely forgotten, probably because it was so short.

I still don't buy the tantrums over what I consider a damn good song that actually touched my cold black heart. That is not easy, when I a sober!

I guess you and I will just have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings

It’s less the song, and more the music video. Were we just listening to audio, we’d probably all agree it’s got the sentiment right. Chalk it up to the power of visuals.

Speaking of damn fine music. I would like to recommend a German group of ballad singers I just came accross recently . Santiano

There a six-member group who make a rootsy blend of sea shanties, European folk, schlager, and contemporary pop music. Their name comes from Hughes Aufray's 1961 single, Santiano. Included in the band are vocalist/guitarist Hans Hinrichsen Timm, vocalist/harmonica player Axel Stosberg, vocalist/guitarist Björn Both, vocalist/guitarist Andreas Fahnert, and violinist Pete Sage.

Here is a simple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDk8Ylvv7LI

Five Finger Death Punch does a lot of music in the vein of Sabaton. Their Blue On Black video is a tribute to first responders, and it’s a very emotional one; Public Health is a second responder, but we’re the folks who catch the people first responders rescue, so we’re part of that community, especially on the ambulance side. That one always punches right in the feels.

They also have a lot of tribute videos for service members and especially demobilized veterans dealing with what they saw when they served. Good music, hard watches. But sometimes you have to bear witness.