Dr. Irving Finkel thinks the people of Göbleki Tepe had writing system

[Micael]

So first off, I am no fan of Lex Friedman due to his obvious pro-Russian slant. He did however have someone on his show that I do happen to be a fan of, Dr. Irving Finkel. A curator at the British Museum, assyrologist, and an authority on cuneiform (perhaps the authority depending on who you ask.)

On the show he explains that he believes that an object found at Göbleki Tepe is in fact a stamp with writing signs on it, intended to stamp seals with. Further that this indicates that the people of Göbleki Tepe had a writing system, probably mainly written on perishable materials and Finkel draws a parallell to the Indus valley civilization where we just have stamps left, and who probably wrote on palm leaves like later in Indian history. He also adds that the prevailing theory about why cuneiform writing was created holds that it came about as a necessity dor managing the complex society there. Pointing out that the same should apply at Göbleki Tepe.

If he is correct this upends the civilization timeline further. Not only do we have Göbleki Tepe and the other associated sites in modern day Turkey which were clearly creates by some sort of an organized civilization, but if they had writing as well we’ve fully pushed back the start of civilizations by at least 8,000 BC (the date conservative estimates holds it was abandoned), or closer to 10,000 BC (when it seems to have been founded).

Moreover, this is just what we’ve been able to find so far and the sites in Turkey were found quite recently. I think it is becoming increasingly likely that we will eventually be able locate much older civilization indicators.

Here’s an eleven and a half minute clip from the show where Finkel explains his beliefs regarding this: https://youtu.be/X0BcGMaEV8o

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

The Good Doctor has a remarkable knack for wrangling such.
Kudos !!
IMHO, he may be one of the very last of his retro-polyglot kind, future researchers relying much, much more on AI-- For better or worse !!!

IIRC, his translation of remarkably complete version of 'Gilgamesh' tale that had previously lurked, un-studied, in 'Private Collection' produced outrage. 'The Ark Before Noah' totally torpedoed the 'Noachian Ark & Flood'. Yes, before that event grew to, um, 'Biblical Proportions' in the re-telling, the Gilgamesh reportage described a 'Very Nasty' river flood, plus a big, round sorta-coracle. Something you really could urgently craft by re-purposing your extended families' roofing materiel, a timeless design which endured unto early 'Photographic' era as 'Artisanal River Ferry'...

[Micael]

For the interested, you can find more clips of Finkel on the same show here: https://youtube.com/@lexclips?si=gGqFkZmPN-wN3DFZ

And here’s the full two hour interview with him: https://youtu.be/_bBRVNkAfkQ

[Edit] I should mention as well that if you are undamiliar with Irving Finkel is that he possesses the gift of very engaging storytelling, and is a very interesting person to listen to if one has some interest at all in ancient things. So ome can do much worse than to spend some time to listen to him.

[Sukhoiman]

Age of Gilgamesh (components) being ~2000 BC possibly older makes lot of sense simply by pure deduction between the bible flood narrative (and dating age of bible and its recensions, oral and written) w.r.t dating the matsya purana in "2nd wave" Hinduism (to early CE, but also older BC substrates) which contains very similar narrative. The next two avatars are also very flood related.

The Zoro's (i.e Iranians) inbetween these geographies had flood narrative too (though more of an ice age bent)....as to give some indication to trade and influence pathways regionally (from likely pre-semitic, semitic to "quite different" indo-europeans regionally).

[Sukhoiman]

The origins which Finkel has added to more recently:

"The flood narrative in the Epic of Gilgamesh became known to the modern world in 1872 when George Smith translated the tablet, revealing striking parallels to the Biblical flood story and causing a sensation. While the story itself existed in much older Mesopotamian traditions (like Sumerian tales from ~1600 BCE or Atrahasis from ~1200 BCE), this specific version was part of the Standard Babylonian epic compiled much earlier (c. 1300-1000 BCE) and found on 7th-century BCE Neo-Assyrian tablets in the British Museum."

[rtoldman]

Ive always thought the flood story was somehow related the end of the younger dryas.

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

"...the end of the younger dryas."

Sadly, no, nor the vast Sunda lowlands going under, nor the Persian Gulf, which had apparently remained 'marsh' as long as did 'Doggerland'.

The 'Black Sea' was a contender, post-glacial rise apparently lonnng delayed by a natural dam near Istanbul. Then rapid spread from the 'deep' to cover the alluvial shelf.
( Ensuing 'shallows' now restricting how close Rus subs dare venture to eg Odessa... )
But the era was wrong, though it may have been conflated...