Back in January 2008, this was scrivened:
MarkSheppard wrote:I went around recently looking for information on what we had ready to strike Cuba in '62; and on one of my discussion lists they mentioned "DEFCON 2" by Norman Polmar and a coauthor.
I recently checked it out via ILL; and the book is sort of marginal; too much on what we already know about the crisis and negotiations; and not enough information on what would have happened if the balloon had gone up.
Basically, OPLAN 316 was set to go off on October 29th, if nobody negotated an end to the crisis.
The first air strikes would hit the five missile launch sites, and 24 SA-2 sites by F-100s and F-105s; with F-104s flying MiG CAP. USN and USMC aircraft would begin bombing the landing beaches and nearby objectives in western Cuba, near Tarana.
While this was all going on, the 82nd and 101st Airborne would parachute in onto the following targets, with each target being hit by at least a regiment:
Jos Marti airfield (near Havana)
Los Banos airfield
Mariel naval air station
Baracoa Airfield
As a final bonus, the Marine garrison at Gitmo would have assaulted out of it's perimeter.
The book really scatters a thin order of battle around a lot; you have to dig out for it, which is why I rate it marginal; I managed to assemble from it; and the following sources
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB14/doc18.htm
and
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOandEs/
the following TOE; which may not be accurate for the Soviets. When I mentioned this to Skimmer, he mentioned that Stuart had done a 1962 OOB post a long long time ago on who had what where during the Crisis; do you still have that post somewhere Stu?
Here goes:
US Forces
180 Ships
1,000 Land Based Aircraft
40,000 Marines
14,500 US Army Paratroops (82nd and 101st)
100,000 US Army Troops
Among which:
CTG 136.2
USS Essex (CVS-9)
---22 x S2F (2 squadrons of it)
---14 x HSS-2s
---1 x WF-2
Blandy (DD 943)
Keppler (DD 765)
Sperry (DD 697)
Barry (DD 933)
Cuban Forces
270,000 Cuban Army Troops
160~ T-34/T-54 tanks
60 x MiG-17s and -19s
700+ AA Guns
Group of Soviet Forces in Cuba:
74th Independent Motorized Rifle Regiment (OMSP) - San Cristobal and Guanajay area
----3 x Motorized Rifle Battalions
----1 x Tank Battalion (31 x T-55s or T-34-85s)
----6 x 122mm Howitzers, 10 x 100mm SP Guns, 9 x 120mm Mortars
----1 x Battalion of Lunas (2 x Launchers, 8 to 12 missiles with "special" warheads, and 102 men)
43rd Independent Motorized Rifle Regiment (OMSP) - vicinity of Santiago de las Vegas
----3 x Motorized Rifle Battalions
----1 x Tank Battalion (31 x T-55s or T-34-85s)
----6 x 122mm Howitzers, 10 x 100mm SP Guns, 9 x 120mm Mortars
----1 x Battalion of Lunas (2 x Launchers, 8 to 12 missiles each with "special" warheads, and 102 men)
146th Independent Motorized Rifle Regiment (OMSP) - Camajuani, Placetas, Sulu
----3 x Motorized Rifle Battalions
----1 x Tank Battalion (31 x T-55s or T-34-85s)
----6 x 122mm Howitzers, 10 x 100mm SP Guns, 9 x 120mm Mortars
----1 x Battalion of Lunas (2 x Launchers, 8 to 12 missiles each with "special" warheads, and 102 men)
106th Independent Motorized Rifle Regiment (OMSP) - vicinity of Holguin
----3 x Rifle Battalions
----1 x Tank Battalion (31 x T-55s or T-34-85s)
12th PVO Division (72 SA-2 Launchers plus 288 missiles) - Western Cuba
27th PVO Division (72 SA-2 Launchers plus 288 missiles) - Eastern Cuba
32nd Fighter Aviation Regiment (42 x MiG 21F-13 FISHBED Cs)
36 x Il-28 Beagles (Conventionally armed)
6 x Il-28 Beagles (Nuclear Armed; provided with six 407N devices - 12 kt)
Missile Division
----539th Missile Regiment (8 x SS-4) - West Cuba
----546th Missile Regiment (8 x SS-4) - West Cuba
----564th Missile Regiment (8 x SS-5) - West Cuba
----514th Missile Regiment (8 x SS-4) - Central Cuba
----657th Missile Regiment (8 x SS-5) - Central Cuba
231st Independent Aviation Engineering Regiment (OAIP) - Western Cuba
(8 Launchers and 40 x 4K87 Sopka (SSC-2a) Tactical Cruise Missiles - 90 mile range, 12 kt warhead)
222nd Independent Aviation Engineering Regiment (OAIP) - Eastern Cuba
(8 Launchers and 40 x 4K87 Sopka (SSC-2a) Tactical Cruise Missiles - 90 mile range, 12 kt warhead)
12 x Komar Missile Boats
And for Comrades Slade and Kozlowski; the Enterprise and Independence both had about 40~ nuclear devices in their magazines; but the cores for them were carried on cruisers accompanying the carriers; the plan was to transfer them to the CVs via helicopter; and in tests, the first bombs could be ready in 20 minutes. Meanwhile, SAC had plans to destroy the SS-4 and SS-5 missile sites. In keeping with Curtis LeMay and Tommy Powers' ideas, the amount of force planned was truly massive; six B-47s each carrying two 10 to 20 megaton gravity bombs, were programmed to strike the missile sites.
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Larry wrote:Interesting, Mark. I did not realize that the Soviets had such extensive ground forces on Cuba. I also did not realize that there were so many SA-2 sites. My goodness, were all 144 sites operational?!? That, coupled with hundreds of 23,37,and 57 mm anti-aircraft guns could make for a rough ride. I'm not entirely certain that the invasion force, as listed, is adequate.
Two subjects for debate. The SAC attack force....six B-47s, total?!? That doesn't sound massive. That sounds inadequate to me, especially given the defenses. If half the B-47s are shot down by SA-2s, that leave 3-6 very large weapons for employment against dozens of dispersed targets. Or were 6 B-47s targeted against each site? Now that would seem more like LeMay.
Secondly, would the Soviets really have used their tactical nukes against the invasion forces? I can't believe they would have. They must have known that if they did, that meant the end not only of Cuba, but of the Soviet Union as well. But supposing they did, and also attacked CONUS or the invasion fleet offshore with their other nuclear assets......would many, or any, of their missiles or bombers gotten through to their targets? We know that some of the SS-4 and SS-5s were operational, but Nike Hercules may have been able to intercept those that were ablel to launch before being destroyed in the American attack. Then we have the Beagles....6 total. One or two may have been able to penetrate to southern Florida or a CVBG? I'm guessing the cruise missiles might have posed the greatest threat, at least to the invasion fleet. They don't quite have the range to hit anything in Florida save for maybe the southernmost Keys. So...perhaps a few, if any, SS-4/5s could have launched, one or two, at most, Beagles get to a target, and whatever threat the cruise missiles could have posed? And against that, the complete annhilation of Cuba, and the Soviet forces therein? Does that sound like a reasonable analysis of the exchange?
I would imagine the strategic exchange would be similar. Perhaps a few Soviet assets would reach targets in the US, at most, but the Soviet Union would cease to exist.
I wish I had a gun just like the A-10, I'd be happy as a baby in a playpen I'd mow 'em down like a weedeater, with that thirty millimeter! I wish I had a gun just like the A-10.
DocMartyn wrote:they had order directly from the top to do so. The orders were released after the USSR fell, IIRC.
Interview panals:-
I have more faith in French cars and the rhythm method.
MarkSheppard wrote: Two subjects for debate. The SAC attack force....six B-47s, total?!?
This was the "backup plan" in case conventional bombardment didn't knock out the ICBM sites.
If half the B-47s are shot down by SA-2s
Considering that it took 2,000~ SA-2s to bring down a mere 3% of SAC's bombers in the Christmas bombing...
that leave 3-6 very large weapons for employment against dozens of dispersed targets. Or were 6 B-47s targeted against each site? Now that would seem more like LeMay.
The Soviet IRBM sites weren't hardened sites; they were very very vunerable, and they needed to have the liquid fuel nearby to load them up for firing within a reasonable time frame.
When you dial up a 15 MT initation and then overlay it over a map of western cuba, where the majority of the missiles were, you're basically blasting the entire western part of the island away.
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