Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
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jemhouston
- Posts: 6485
- Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:38 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
I'd like them replace Canberra since it was a near perfect machine.
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Simon Darkshade
- Posts: 2110
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
It has been replaced, firstly by the TSR-2 in the heavy role and then by the Vickers Thunderbolt in the light.
To expand:
1.) The DE Canberra was a "light medium" which entered service in the final years of the Second World War. It was a 1st generation jet bomber. As of the late 1970s, jet fighters and bombers are in their 4th generation.
2.) Performance: The historical Canberra had a combat range of 810 miles, a top speed of 580mph at altitude or 518mph at sea level, a ceiling of 48,000ft and an 8000lb maximum bombload, with a 65ft length, 64ft wingspan, 960 square feet wing area and a MTOW of 55000lb. The DE Canberra is 78ft long, has a wingspan of 75ft, a wing area of 1250 square feet and a MTOW of 75000lb, with a combat range of 1375 miles, a top speed of 640mph at 42000ft, a ceiling of 55000ft and 12000lb maximum bombload.
3.) British Production was 90 in 1943, 192 in 1944, 245 in 1945, 200 in 1946, 235 in 1947, 288 in 1948, 306 in 1949, 329 in 1950, 462 in 1951, 452 in 1952, 394 in 1953, 329 in 1954, 276 in 1955, 284 in 1956, 310 in 1957, 278 in 1958, 236 in 1959 and 219 in 1960 for 5125 of all variants. Further production occurred in Canada (629), Australia (426), South Africa (157) and under license in the USA by Martin Aircraft as the B-56.
4.) The development of a replacement began in 1952. Peak RAF deployment came in 1958 with 640 in Bomber Command's Light Bomber Force, 320 in MEAF, 240 in the FEAF, 160 in RAF Mediterranean, 160 in RAF India, 460 ground attack bombers in the Tactical Air Forces and RAF Germany, just over 200 photo recce planes, 120 EW types, and 200 assorted trainers for 2536 on paper strength.
5.) Exports: India 684; Arab Union states 320; Austria-Hungary, Germany, France and Italy 250; Belgium, the Netherlands Sweden, Egypt, Japan, Argentina and Brazil 120; Persia, Mexico, Portugal, Bulgaria and Chile 100; Yugoslavia, Nigeria and Rhodesia 80; Kenya and Peru 48; Libya, Ethiopia, the Ashante Confederation, Tanganyika, Uganda and Cameroon 24
6.) By 1960, the Canberra was getting long in the tooth, behind the cutting edge of military aviation and obsolescent. By 1970, she was obsolete in her original form as a bomber or strike aircraft.
To expand:
1.) The DE Canberra was a "light medium" which entered service in the final years of the Second World War. It was a 1st generation jet bomber. As of the late 1970s, jet fighters and bombers are in their 4th generation.
2.) Performance: The historical Canberra had a combat range of 810 miles, a top speed of 580mph at altitude or 518mph at sea level, a ceiling of 48,000ft and an 8000lb maximum bombload, with a 65ft length, 64ft wingspan, 960 square feet wing area and a MTOW of 55000lb. The DE Canberra is 78ft long, has a wingspan of 75ft, a wing area of 1250 square feet and a MTOW of 75000lb, with a combat range of 1375 miles, a top speed of 640mph at 42000ft, a ceiling of 55000ft and 12000lb maximum bombload.
3.) British Production was 90 in 1943, 192 in 1944, 245 in 1945, 200 in 1946, 235 in 1947, 288 in 1948, 306 in 1949, 329 in 1950, 462 in 1951, 452 in 1952, 394 in 1953, 329 in 1954, 276 in 1955, 284 in 1956, 310 in 1957, 278 in 1958, 236 in 1959 and 219 in 1960 for 5125 of all variants. Further production occurred in Canada (629), Australia (426), South Africa (157) and under license in the USA by Martin Aircraft as the B-56.
4.) The development of a replacement began in 1952. Peak RAF deployment came in 1958 with 640 in Bomber Command's Light Bomber Force, 320 in MEAF, 240 in the FEAF, 160 in RAF Mediterranean, 160 in RAF India, 460 ground attack bombers in the Tactical Air Forces and RAF Germany, just over 200 photo recce planes, 120 EW types, and 200 assorted trainers for 2536 on paper strength.
5.) Exports: India 684; Arab Union states 320; Austria-Hungary, Germany, France and Italy 250; Belgium, the Netherlands Sweden, Egypt, Japan, Argentina and Brazil 120; Persia, Mexico, Portugal, Bulgaria and Chile 100; Yugoslavia, Nigeria and Rhodesia 80; Kenya and Peru 48; Libya, Ethiopia, the Ashante Confederation, Tanganyika, Uganda and Cameroon 24
6.) By 1960, the Canberra was getting long in the tooth, behind the cutting edge of military aviation and obsolescent. By 1970, she was obsolete in her original form as a bomber or strike aircraft.
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Tactical Surströmming spray? 
That's cruel and unusual extrajudicial punishment! 
A simple hint for the Imperial German MCM flottilla: Looking at the shit that was dumped into the Baltic and North Seas in "our" Earth's history especially after WW2 plus the metric crapload of mines, the MCM forces should be extremely experienced and riding the bleeding edge of technology.
That's cruel and unusual extrajudicial punishment! A simple hint for the Imperial German MCM flottilla: Looking at the shit that was dumped into the Baltic and North Seas in "our" Earth's history especially after WW2 plus the metric crapload of mines, the MCM forces should be extremely experienced and riding the bleeding edge of technology.
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Simon Darkshade
- Posts: 2110
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
The Swedish military and police do not mess around, with this being one of their nicer incidents. In 1973, there was this:
"August 23: Jan-Erik Olsson attempts to rob the Kreditbanken on Normmalstorg Square in Stockholm in an effort to secure the release of his criminal mentor, seizing four hostages and exchanging fire with the police. They respond with firegas and, whilst subsequently storming the bank, accidentally combine the effects of two experimental arcane wands of command and paralysis, their own police protective cloaks and a small basket of seafood. The resulting impacts wears off the hostages after two days, but the captive Olsson remains unable to stop vomiting elvers for the better part of a fortnight; research wizards will later dub the accidental effect as ‘Stockholm Syndrome’.
Nice idea for the German MCM forces; I'll see what can be done in the remaining months of 1976.
"August 23: Jan-Erik Olsson attempts to rob the Kreditbanken on Normmalstorg Square in Stockholm in an effort to secure the release of his criminal mentor, seizing four hostages and exchanging fire with the police. They respond with firegas and, whilst subsequently storming the bank, accidentally combine the effects of two experimental arcane wands of command and paralysis, their own police protective cloaks and a small basket of seafood. The resulting impacts wears off the hostages after two days, but the captive Olsson remains unable to stop vomiting elvers for the better part of a fortnight; research wizards will later dub the accidental effect as ‘Stockholm Syndrome’.
Nice idea for the German MCM forces; I'll see what can be done in the remaining months of 1976.
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Belushi TD
- Posts: 1862
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:20 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
This was an amazing data dump. I've not had the time to read through it all so far, but I love how it provides a very detailed view into certain aspects of DE's military and procurement.
As always, the easter eggs provide a delightful enhancement from the meat of the post, not unlike a fine wine or a rich sauce.
Belushi TD
As always, the easter eggs provide a delightful enhancement from the meat of the post, not unlike a fine wine or a rich sauce.
Belushi TD
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Simon Darkshade
- Posts: 2110
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Thank you for that delightful metaphor, which appeals to my gastronautical bent.
The likes of the above don't take a lot of time to do, and keeping odd hours through 'shift work body clock' and puppy/baby velociraptor duties does allow for a little bit of collation, sorting and a tiny bit of initial analysis. It does help in mapping out future developments and seeing what areas I tend to drift towards when everything isn't completely planned to the nth degree as in other pieces of extended prose or history.
What therefore is likely to make more of an appearance?
- Arms sales
- Strategic/nuclear weapons, which will likely come in the form of some sort of talks/agreements, then some new systems
- A bit more on the personnel/training side, which is an interesting area rarely touched upon
- Plans, plans and more plans. They always provide some meat to talk about
- Tanks, but within reason. Many nations have built or purchased their second or third lot of the Cold War era (the first lot being the Centurion/M48 period, then the AMX-25/30, Chieftain and M60, then the Crusader/Challenger, M70, AMX-32 and the Leopard, and now the 1980s general of Leopard II, the M100 Abrams, the Napoleon and the next Crusader version
The likes of the above don't take a lot of time to do, and keeping odd hours through 'shift work body clock' and puppy/baby velociraptor duties does allow for a little bit of collation, sorting and a tiny bit of initial analysis. It does help in mapping out future developments and seeing what areas I tend to drift towards when everything isn't completely planned to the nth degree as in other pieces of extended prose or history.
What therefore is likely to make more of an appearance?
- Arms sales
- Strategic/nuclear weapons, which will likely come in the form of some sort of talks/agreements, then some new systems
- A bit more on the personnel/training side, which is an interesting area rarely touched upon
- Plans, plans and more plans. They always provide some meat to talk about
- Tanks, but within reason. Many nations have built or purchased their second or third lot of the Cold War era (the first lot being the Centurion/M48 period, then the AMX-25/30, Chieftain and M60, then the Crusader/Challenger, M70, AMX-32 and the Leopard, and now the 1980s general of Leopard II, the M100 Abrams, the Napoleon and the next Crusader version