"ST: Starfleet Academy"....

[Nathan45]

If any on you gave up on this early, episode 9 is actually pretty good if you want to try it again. (Although the writers really don't seem to have a sense of just how big the federation is)

[jemhouston]

If any on you gave up on this early, episode 9 is actually pretty good if you want to try it again. (Although the writers really don't seem to have a sense of just how big the federation is)

I'm not watching it, but isn't it set post burn so isn't the Federation smaller?

[Nathan45]

Yes, and yes, but i still didn't feel that particular plot point was plausible.

[Johnnie Lyle]

Welp, the official cancellation notice has gone out.

I think this thread is a good example why it’s hard to argue with that decision. We’ve got a pretty good group of Trekkies here, of a wide variety of views and interests, and some pretty well thought out discussions of the Trek verse. Some of us have even dabbled in the universe ourselves (cough Mike, Pooh and Micael). So we should be much easier to engage than say, the general public audience.

Academy is really only able to engage some of us, which says a lot. Nor does said engagement/lack thereof correlate well with political views, or even views of New (or should we say Newer) Trek. There’s a wide diversity of opinion on most New(er) Trek, but it’s not like that’s a monolith either - some of us love Disco but hate Picard, or vice versa. While SNW and Lower Decks have a strong fandom here, it’s not universal. So it’s reasonable to say it’s not a Newer Trek failing compared to the rosy-eyed glasses of the TNG or even TOS of our youth (though Season 3 of TNG is pretty much peak Trek). Nor is it the never ending complaints about “woke,” since Trek has been at the bleeding edge of social consciousness since the get go (though we can probably reasonably argue that older Trek was better at presenting even really radical stuff as extremely normal in the way it would be thirty years after airing).

I think it goes back to a combo of Pooh and Jotun’s comments: the student experience is a very limited creative well to mine, and as a result you’re creating something that is inherently niche, even if well done. Two seasons is pretty good for niche though.

[Bernard Woolley]

Can’t help but think that if social media had existed when TNG, DS9 and VOY first came out they wouldn’t have lasted past season 2 either. That said, ST:A was a bit hit and miss. Depending on which site you’re on, it was either too niche (I don’t disagree), or it wasn’t nice enough and ignored the established fandom. I really don’t get the hate for ST:A, but there does seem to be a faction of Trekkies who hate anything new. It does also look like the show was review bombed.

People who called it ‘woke’ as a derogatory term are, IMVHO, the sort of people who call anything they don’t like ‘woke’. It not, after all, like ST:A had episodes banned! The cope amongst some people about the relationship between two male characters was quite amusing. Apparently it’s not gay if you’re different species!

These days a new series has to hit the ground running and be a hit in its first series/season. I can think of a few classic TV series that would not have gotten a series 2 if they had been made today.

[jemhouston]

While it was done by mail, the third season of St:TOS was due to a fan campaign writing into network.

[Bernard Woolley]

I think they’d be ignored these days. There was a strong online campaign to save Lower Decks & it came to nothing.

[MikeKozlowski]

I think they’d be ignored these days. There was a strong online campaign to save Lower Decks & it came to nothing.

I've seen a couple stories that stated there was never any chance of Lower Decks getting another season, because The Powers That Be were highly annoyed that it had gotten consistently better reviews and numbers than Disco and SNW.

Mike

[Nathan45]

While I didn't like SA, I have to admit that it would be difficult for any recent ST IP to succeed in todays world. And honestly I thought some of the later episodes were better, (I rate on a budget adjusted level) It would not shock me if a couple of season 2 episodes are actually really good, nor would it shock me if they were worse then season 1. Its a bit sobering to me that the only season 1 episodes I've really liked in any recent Star Trek were DS9 (Duet in particular).

(Yes, I know I'm aging myself referring to DS9 as recent.)

[clancyphile]

The way they handled the cancellation points to kicking Kurtzman off.

What they ought to do is find a real fan of the show, and hand it to him.

I don't think SA was awful, but they didn't make some of the best storytelling decisions, either. The real impact would have been to have Dax get a bigger role alongside the Doctor, with the two of them bonding (not romantically) over the facts that they KNEW some of those who are held up as legends (Sisko, Nog, Janeway, Kim, etc.), but also over the fact that their expanded (infinite) lifespans mean they outlive those close friendships on a consistent basis.

They hinted at it some with The Doctor, but nowhere near as well as they could have.

Also, these shorter seasons do not help some shows, and Star Trek is one of them, IMO. TNG, DS9, and VOY all had about two dozen episodes. That's a lot of time for a cast to gel. It's much harder to do that in a shortened 8-10 episode season.

[Poohbah]

Can’t help but think that if social media had existed when TNG, DS9 and VOY first came out they wouldn’t have lasted past season 2 either. That said, ST:A was a bit hit and miss. Depending on which site you’re on, it was either too niche (I don’t disagree), or it wasn’t nice enough and ignored the established fandom. I really don’t get the hate for ST:A, but there does seem to be a faction of Trekkies who hate anything new. It does also look like the show was review bombed.

People who called it ‘woke’ as a derogatory term are, IMVHO, the sort of people who call anything they don’t like ‘woke’. It not, after all, like ST:A had episodes banned! The cope amongst some people about the relationship between two male characters was quite amusing. Apparently it’s not gay if you’re different species!

These days a new series has to hit the ground running and be a hit in its first series/season. I can think of a few classic TV series that would not have gotten a series 2 if they had been made today.

TNG honestly deserved to get cancelled before Season 1 finished between lackluster ratings, recycling plots from TOS, and, honestly, a key element of the premise being insanely stupid.

8-year-old kids did not sign up to be killed in action against the Cardassians, vaporized by a warp core breach induced by an ancient cyber weapon, assimilated by the Borg, eaten by a negative space/time wedgie, et cetera.

Honestly, they should have bumped off Wesley instead of Tasha. Just to show how flipping stupid the idea was and to officially wake Starfleet up.

Paramount willing to stick it out was a sign that they knew they were sitting on a mountain of gold if they did things right.

The present problems with Trek properties revolve around most Hollywood productions being made by people who have no idea how to tell any kind of story. It's not a Star Trek problem.

Someone go find Bill Shaych and throw some money at him.

[Poohbah]

The way they handled the cancellation points to kicking Kurtzman off.

What they ought to do is find a real fan of the show, and hand it to him.

I don't think SA was awful, but they didn't make some of the best storytelling decisions, either. The real impact would have been to have Dax get a bigger role alongside the Doctor, with the two of them bonding (not romantically) over the facts that they KNEW some of those who are held up as legends (Sisko, Nog, Janeway, Kim, etc.), but also over the fact that their expanded (infinite) lifespans mean they outlive those close friendships on a consistent basis.

They hinted at it some with The Doctor, but nowhere near as well as they could have.

Also, these shorter seasons do not help some shows, and Star Trek is one of them, IMO. TNG, DS9, and VOY all had about two dozen episodes. That's a lot of time for a cast to gel. It's much harder to do that in a shortened 8-10 episode season.

And the underlying problem is that most of Hollywood has forgotten how to tell a story.

They can make a spectacle. But it's sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[Jotun]

Can’t help but think that if social media had existed when TNG, DS9 and VOY first came out they wouldn’t have lasted past season 2 either. That said, ST:A was a bit hit and miss. Depending on which site you’re on, it was either too niche (I don’t disagree), or it wasn’t nice enough and ignored the established fandom. I really don’t get the hate for ST:A, but there does seem to be a faction of Trekkies who hate anything new. It does also look like the show was review bombed.

People who called it ‘woke’ as a derogatory term are, IMVHO, the sort of people who call anything they don’t like ‘woke’. It not, after all, like ST:A had episodes banned! The cope amongst some people about the relationship between two male characters was quite amusing. Apparently it’s not gay if you’re different species!

These days a new series has to hit the ground running and be a hit in its first series/season. I can think of a few classic TV series that would not have gotten a series 2 if they had been made today.

Review bombing is more of a myth than surprising/suspicious numbers of 10/10 of 5/5 "reviews" of one line.

The older Trek series up to and including Enterprise had one weighty advantage: GOOD F***ING WRITING. What little I saw of Discovery and now Academy was horrid. Absolutely horrid.

There is a problem when writers and showrunner almost pathologically want to capture the non-existant Modern Audience(tm), and lack respect for the franchise itself.

Trek is far from the only glaring example of zeigeisty writing that failed at even the most basic tenets of writing.

[kdahm]

The way they handled the cancellation points to kicking Kurtzman off.

What they ought to do is find a real fan of the show, and hand it to him.

I don't think SA was awful, but they didn't make some of the best storytelling decisions, either. The real impact would have been to have Dax get a bigger role alongside the Doctor, with the two of them bonding (not romantically) over the facts that they KNEW some of those who are held up as legends (Sisko, Nog, Janeway, Kim, etc.), but also over the fact that their expanded (infinite) lifespans mean they outlive those close friendships on a consistent basis.

They hinted at it some with The Doctor, but nowhere near as well as they could have.

Also, these shorter seasons do not help some shows, and Star Trek is one of them, IMO. TNG, DS9, and VOY all had about two dozen episodes. That's a lot of time for a cast to gel. It's much harder to do that in a shortened 8-10 episode season.

And the underlying problem is that most of Hollywood has forgotten how to tell a story.

They can make a spectacle. But it's sound and fury, signifying nothing.

The other underlying problem is that the Hollywood writers and producers have largely lost touch with anyone who has less than a mid-seven figure income. They absolutely don't have the slightest idea what anyone making under six digits think, and believe that their circle represents all of the US except for a few degenerates.

[Poohbah]

The way they handled the cancellation points to kicking Kurtzman off.

What they ought to do is find a real fan of the show, and hand it to him.

I don't think SA was awful, but they didn't make some of the best storytelling decisions, either. The real impact would have been to have Dax get a bigger role alongside the Doctor, with the two of them bonding (not romantically) over the facts that they KNEW some of those who are held up as legends (Sisko, Nog, Janeway, Kim, etc.), but also over the fact that their expanded (infinite) lifespans mean they outlive those close friendships on a consistent basis.

They hinted at it some with The Doctor, but nowhere near as well as they could have.

Also, these shorter seasons do not help some shows, and Star Trek is one of them, IMO. TNG, DS9, and VOY all had about two dozen episodes. That's a lot of time for a cast to gel. It's much harder to do that in a shortened 8-10 episode season.

And the underlying problem is that most of Hollywood has forgotten how to tell a story.

They can make a spectacle. But it's sound and fury, signifying nothing.

The other underlying problem is that the Hollywood writers and producers have largely lost touch with anyone who has less than a mid-seven figure income. They absolutely don't have the slightest idea what anyone making under six digits think, and believe that their circle represents all of the US except for a few degenerates.

I am rereading some of the men's adventure books of my somewhat-misspent youth. I have had a chance to virtually meet many of the writers of those books (sadly, several of them have passed away since). One thing that's fascinating is how varied their life experiences were before they took up writing. Not just from each other, but within their own lives. And a lot of them spent a large chunk of their lives in blue collar work of various kinds. Each of them had their own voice, their own lived experiences to draw on, et cetera. You could tell immediately when Stephen Mertz was writing versus Mike Newton versus Patrick Rogers, even when writing the same character under a house name.

Nowadays, everyone in the biz comes out of MFA programs, and they all write the same way and have the same stories to tell. None of them have ever been outside their bubble. None of them apparently did anything like working at a fast food joint, or replacing auto glass (a couple of my old Marine buddies did that, and they have some hilarious stories), or any of a thousand other jobs that would put them in direct contact with normies.