OOC Thread

[Belushi TD]

In 1988? There were still SNAF Backfires in Cuba (stuck there after the liberation of Iceland), and also SNAF Su-24s. The threat was there. So the decision to scuttle would be an easy one. Just get her into some deep water so that any kind of salvage-even a theoretical one-would be out of the question. They would take the code books with them upon abandon ship being ordered, then have a couple of brave souls open the diving vents one last time, then scramble up the conning tower, out the hatch, and don't look back as she goes down for the last time.

Why would they be stuck there? Can't they fly to Africa? And from there, somewhere through Europe? Or maybe through Iraq? This is before the western europeans got in on the war, right? Wasn't Libya still sort of friendly to Russia, or have I conflated universes again? If they really wanted to, couldn't they fly them to mexico, refuel, and then fly north over the Pacific to occupied Canada? Or maybe Alaska? Elmendorf looks like its within ferry distance from northern Mexico, even assuming a dog leg out to sea.

Belushi TD

[Matryoshka]

Unless ComBloc intelligence in the planning stages for such a flight had been perfect and their luck during the actual execution exquisite, there’s every chance that such an attempt would’ve seen the fleeing Backfires intercepted by CONUS-based Eagles, or encountering a carrier-group that promptly butchered them with the Tomcat/Phoenix combination.

Whereas every day that those birds stayed in Cuba (even if only on the ramp) was one more day that they acted as a force-in-being, obliging the Allies to honour the threat by keeping fighters and interceptors in containment positions. Besides which, Chebrikov and STAVKA still entertained delusions of ‘renewing the offensive’ and marching forward to Final Victory right up to the fall of the Brownsville Pocket; keeping flyable aircraft staged in position to participate in that ‘renewed offensive’ would be entirely consistent with their inability to deal with the objective conditions.

[Matt Wiser]

The Backfires aren't just a "Force in being." They fly strikes into Florida and the Southeast with standoff weapons like the AS-4 and AS-6, along with anti-shipping strikes. By the time of Brownsville, though? They've either been shot down, destroyed on the ground, or are grounded due to mechanical issues that can't be repaired in Cuba.

[Poohbah]

Unless ComBloc intelligence in the planning stages for such a flight had been perfect and their luck during the actual execution exquisite, there’s every chance that such an attempt would’ve seen the fleeing Backfires intercepted by CONUS-based Eagles, or encountering a carrier-group that promptly butchered them with the Tomcat/Phoenix combination.

Whereas every day that those birds stayed in Cuba (even if only on the ramp) was one more day that they acted as a force-in-being, obliging the Allies to honour the threat by keeping fighters and interceptors in containment positions. Besides which, Chebrikov and STAVKA still entertained delusions of ‘renewing the offensive’ and marching forward to Final Victory right up to the fall of the Brownsville Pocket; keeping flyable aircraft staged in position to participate in that ‘renewed offensive’ would be entirely consistent with their inability to deal with the objective conditions.

It would have to be as well-planned and coordinated as the Channel Dash. Deception, electronic warfare, and so on. The first phase would be to hide the preparations (possibly with deceptive prestrike reconnaissance sorties into the Florida Panhandle and southern Mississippi/Alabama region), and concealing plans for the getaway by making it look as if they're going to fly northwest. Phase 2: jam the snot out of Southern Florida during the launch. Make it appear that it's a major strike on Pascagoula. As everyone races across the Gulf, the Backfires actually fly southeast towards a friendly nation in Africa. And then hope the carriers are more interested in Kola than the Central and South Atlantic.

[Poohbah]

The Backfires aren't just a "Force in being." They fly strikes into Florida and the Southeast with standoff weapons like the AS-4 and AS-6, along with anti-shipping strikes. By the time of Brownsville, though? They've either been shot down, destroyed on the ground, or are grounded due to mechanical issues that can't be repaired in Cuba.

Assume that anything on Cuba that's too big to revet and too valuable to leave alone is going to eventually receive a Candygram for Mongo.

[Lordroel]

Matt was Guam also used for ASTERN EXPRESS missions.

[Matt Wiser]

Yes, after the Soviet/NK raiding force was ejected by 3rd Marine Division.

[Belushi TD]

The Backfires aren't just a "Force in being." They fly strikes into Florida and the Southeast with standoff weapons like the AS-4 and AS-6, along with anti-shipping strikes. By the time of Brownsville, though? They've either been shot down, destroyed on the ground, or are grounded due to mechanical issues that can't be repaired in Cuba.

More importantly, unless we're talking about a large number of them that got stranded when Iceland was returned to freedom, the COMBLOC's tactical aircraft are a much more threatening "force in being". They're only 90 miles from Florida. EVERYTHING they Cubans had could hit Florida, and we were required to keep aircraft and air defense systems there for that purpose.

In my opinion, the Backfires in Cuba were a waste of resources. Again, I'm not sure how many of them there were, but unless there was a regiment or more, they're not really a significant strike force compared to the rest of the Cuban air force. Sure. We'd have to pay attention to them, but we'd also know exactly where they are every time they landed, and if we really cared, we could hammer the airfield with a strike to wreck the aircraft and damage the runways and facilities. Cluster bombs and snake eyes for the win!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the USSR would have been in much better shape to get the aircraft out of Cuba so they can use them as part of a major strike force, rather than waste them as potential targets in Cuba.

Belushi TD