British Army Order of Battle

[Eaglenine2]

Question I thought Household Cavalry Mounted Regiment is a National Defence Reconnaissance Regiment with two squadrons made up of the Household Regiments with the capability to create Recce Squadron for the Royal Duty Force? Why does Infantry Battalion (Home Defence - Territorial Army) has
smaller third company?

[Louie]

Bernard can opine, but,
IRL…..

The HCMR was scheduled to form two Inf Coys for KP duties, however the TA ORBAT Review recommended that the HCMR should form the Recce Regt for London District. Now it had only two Sqns BUT on TTW, I am sure any IRs or REDRUM personnel not allotted as WMR to the two Regts may have been assigned to the HCMR to form a third sqn (never underestimate the MG of the Guards Div/GOC London District!).
The wheeled (FOX CVR (W)) Sqn from the Windsor based Regiment would be assigned to the Royal/Special Duties Force.
To be continued…

[Louie]

Again, IRL, most British Army units, Regular and Territorial were never at WE (war establishment)
In peacetime. Upon TTW, REDRUM personnel and IRs would fill out units to take them up to WE.

Now in TLW, the TA Inf Bns with a MHD role appear to have a Pl in one Rifle Coy trained as Assault Pioneers, which makes perfect sense since IRL, Engineer capability in UKLF was acknowledged to be woefully inadequate. Priorities were EOD and ADR (Airfield Damage Repair), field engineering (building fortifications, clearing mines, bridging rivers) were in short supply. Assault Pioneers were taught basic engineering skills and could do quick fortifications and clear obstacles. Now as I mentioned above, on TTW, that Coy that was short a Pl was most likely brought up to WE with IRs, so they could field a full Coy.

[Eaglenine2]

Wasn't 17th/21st Lancers provided the tank squadron for the Welsh Guards Battle Group in Canada and the Royal Irish Regiment Battle Group in Kuwait?

[James1978]

Wasn't 17th/21st Lancers provided the tank squadron for the Welsh Guards Battle Group in Canada and the Royal Irish Regiment Battle Group in Kuwait?

Yes. And the Squadron attached to the Berlin Brigade. So prior to the TTW, 17th/21st Lancers only fielded 1/4 squadrons in BAOR.

During the TTW, E Squadron (Mobilization) and F Squadron (Mobilization) were formed.

Per Bernard:

It shouldn't have all fallen on a single regiment. However, someone, or rather a series of someones at the MoD screwed up. A case of "oh, they already have one squadron detached, so one more won't hurt too much" without checking that someone else had also taken the same decision. The Kuwait and BATUS squadrons were supposed to finish their rotations too, so when it was noticed, it wasn't considered a serious issue.

[Eaglenine2]

So where would the Welsh Guards going to after their Canada rotation?
Question why are light role, parachute, Airborne and Airportable battalions are organized differently? With the only difference is that parachute battalions are all parachute qualified and at least a company group of the airborne battalion are parachute qualified.

[Louie]

Wasn't 17th/21st Lancers provided the tank squadron for the Welsh Guards Battle Group in Canada and the Royal Irish Regiment Battle Group in Kuwait?

Yes. And the Squadron attached to the Berlin Brigade. So prior to the TTW, 17th/21st Lancers only fielded 1/4 squadrons in BAOR.

During the TTW, E Squadron (Mobilization) and F Squadron (Mobilization) were formed.

Per Bernard:

It shouldn't have all fallen on a single regiment. However, someone, or rather a series of someones at the MoD screwed up. A case of "oh, they already have one squadron detached, so one more won't hurt too much" without checking that someone else had also taken the same decision. The Kuwait and BATUS squadrons were supposed to finish their rotations too, so when it was noticed, it wasn't considered a serious issue.

Eaglenine,

Up until the IRL Jackson Reforms of 2005-06, the British Army maintained something called “The Arms Plot”, RAC, Inf, and to some extent RA (the RA only plotted their eleven Field Regts and three AD Regts, the rest trickle-posted) rotated their units between barracks/assignments every so often. BAOR tours were longer for all Arms, with “breaks” of up to two years in the UK or somewhere “sunny”. The Arms Plot also took into account Residential tours in NI and for the RAC/RA the Maze Prison Guard Force on a 6 month tour. The Arms Plot was published years in advance and was very detailed…..however there was also The “Emergency Tour Plot” where units would have to go to NI if there was an uptick in violence, or say Cyprus if the Greeks & Turks became unpleasant. The Arms Plot was intended to give the Combat Arms a variety over the course of a decade or so, again with breaks for Home Service or a garrison in the Sun. But even if you were doing your two years in the UK, a unit could be alerted for a 3 month Emergency Tour in NI, send a Coy Grp to the Falklands for 6 months, or do a Emergency UN tour on the Green Line in Cyprus.
So it looks like the 17/21 Lancers were the Tidworth Armd Regt, which IRL had one Sqn assigned in TTW to UKMF (I won’t confuse you and get into IRL future plans….) while the rest of the Regt was assigned to BAOR/19 IB on TTW. In peacetime however it had to provide a Sqn to the IDB at Warminster, perhaps send some personnel to man the OPFOR at BATUS, and RAAT (Regular Army Assistance Table), which would assign a Sqn or a Tp to exercise with a RM Cdo or a Para Bn, or a TA Bn to give them up close MBT experience.

Now in TLW, perhaps the Berlin Armd Sqn was provided by the Tidworth Regt OR the BAOR Armd Regt that provided the Sqn had its annual gunnery in West Germany, necessitating a Sqn (from the 17/21 Lancers) to temporarily replace them, then the crisis started and COMNORTHAG wanted all of his Armd Regts up to strength (Berlin Bde did not fall under BAOR). Meanwhile since BAOR convinced ECAB to keep what they had, the only place to make up numbers for deployments were the 17/21 Lancers……

Sorry for the long explanation but the idiosyncrasies of the British Army are a wonder to behold!!!

[Eaglenine2]

Wasn't Royal Hussars (Prince of Wales Own) was the regular Armored regiment for UKMF?

[Louie]

Wasn't Royal Hussars (Prince of Wales Own) was the regular Armored regiment for UKMF?

Yes, (even I get confused!!!) but currently the British Army ORBAT is being updated and you should have answers to your questions soon.

[James1978]

Are the army landing ships Ardennes (L4001) and Arakan (L4003) still around?
Or have they been replaced or retired without replacement? Historically they were both stricken in March 1999 at 23 and 22 years of age.

[Bernard Woolley]

They’re still around. They’re included in the various orbats in the RN thread.

[Bernard Woolley]

A general note on these orbats. They are still a work in progress, espcially the Home Defence one. As I'm still discovering new information.

The BAOR one also does leave some units out, such as the RAMC hospitals, RADC, some RMP and other logistics and support units. Louie's excellent BAOR July 1989 Order of Battle contains these units. Which would be largely unchanged in TLW. Other than some units becoming part of the RLC (RAOC, RTC, RPC, parts of the RE etc), or AGC (RMP, RAPC etc.).

[Eaglenine2]

Question does the regular Mechanized Wheeled Battalion that served in Communications Zone and Rear Combat Zone which was 2nd Bn, The Royal Green Jackets in Lousid BOAR orbat still exist?

[Bernard Woolley]

No, in @ the Royal Green Jackets became part of The Rifles. 2 RGJ became 4 RIFLES.

[James1978]

Question does the regular Mechanized Wheeled Battalion that served in Communications Zone and Rear Combat Zone which was 2nd Bn, The Royal Green Jackets in Lousid BOAR orbat still exist?

If the question is where are 2nd Battalion, The Royal Green Jackets in TLWverse, the answer is 5 Airborne Brigade in Norway.

If the question is which battalion is the wheeled mechanized battalion in the British Support Command, the answer appears to be 1st Battalion, The Worcestershire & Sherwood Foresters (29th/45th Foot).

[Louie]

Question does the regular Mechanized Wheeled Battalion that served in Communications Zone and Rear Combat Zone which was 2nd Bn, The Royal Green Jackets in Lousid BOAR orbat still exist?

There were two regular Type A/Mechanized Wheeled (aka Saxon) Bns that would set up the LOCs on TTW, Joint Theatre Plan 362. The Bn based at Dover would set up LOCs from the Channel ports to the Corps Rear (I have confirmed that). The Weeton based Bn would set up LOCs in the Corps Rear (I have NOT confirmed this yet). Once the LOCs were set up the Dover Bn would come under control of 1 BR Corps, the Weeton Bn would stay west of the Weser in the Corps rear.

[Louie]

Just a brief note on how 1 BR Corps planned to fight in 1989
The FEBA was supposed to be from the IGB to the Leine, with 3 Armd Div in hides between the Weser and Leine. However by 1989, in practice the Rear Boundaries for 1 & 4 Armd Divs extended to the Weser. This was because 3 Armd Div might have already been deployed anywhere in the NORTHAG area as, by that time, NORTHAG planned to fight an AG battle with forces deployed regardless of Corps sectors/national Corps boundaries.
1 BR Corps planned to deploy tens of thousands of mines (which it was well stocked with) as barriers to channel the Soviets into kill zones held by dismounted Inf with almost every MILAN FP in the Army deployed to FRG. The Armd Bde’s BGs would maneuver around these kill zones. The minefields where divided into “nudges” enough to push the Soviets in a direction, “nuisances” to slow them down, and “full stops” so dense that it gave the Soviets no choice but to go around them or risk being destroyed by combined artillery fire, HELARM, and air strikes. British artillery, though 1 BR Corps had probably the least amount of barrels in NORTHAG, had fantastic artillery control as a FOO could call down anything from a battery, to the DAG, or every available gun in the Corps on a target. I am told the artillery control was the best in NATO.

[Bernard Woolley]

And despite CAT 87 its Tank gunnery was also probably amongst the best in NATO too. Something later proved on the battlefield. Just not a European one.

[Louie]

And despite CAT 87 its Tank gunnery was also probably amongst the best in NATO too. Something later proved on the battlefield. Just not a European one.

Yes Sir, you are certainly correct on that account. Made more so by the advent of Chally2.

[Bernard Woolley]

The CAT competitions were totally unrealistic and a lot of countries cheated.