The Last War: 359.

The long and short stories of 'The Last War' by Jan Niemczyk and others
Bernard Woolley
Posts: 998
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:06 pm
Location: Earth

The Last War: 359.

Post by Bernard Woolley »

With many thanks to Matt W & Jotun.

*

D+23

*
2031 hours GMT. Malyshev Factory, Kharkov, Ukrainian SSR.
Also known by its own name, Plant 75, the Malyshev Factory was one of the most important Soviet tank manufacturing facilities. Over the decades the factory had built the legendary T-34, the T-55, T-64, and T-80, amongst others. As of 2005 it was the main production facility for the T-80UD, the diesel variant of the tank. There was also a production line for the T-95 tank, which in time would replace the T-80 as the factory’s primary product. Something between five hundred to eight hundred tanks would emerge from Malyshev in a year, depending on the demands of the Soviet Army. Production was continuing to ramp up, as the army burned through tanks as if they were going out of fashion.
As well as new tanks, Plant 75 was also refurbishing tanks taken out of storage and repairing those that had suffered battle damage. Although, there were not too many of the latter, as Soviet tanks that had suffered damage beyond the capability of army repair units tended to have been destroyed.

Being a strategically vital factory, Malyshev was protected by an entire regiment of MVD Internal Troops. Anti-aircraft guns and Surface to Air Missiles had also been positioned to protect the factory from any missile, or bomber attack that got past the V-PVO Combat Air Patrols.

None of the security stopped the multiple explosions that erupted across the factory just after 1800 hours. Most of the bombs were incendiary devices, intended to start fires, but some other small bombs were used to disable the factory’s fire suppression system. On attempting to respond to the outbreak of multiple fires, the factory’s own fire brigade found that their equipment had been sabotaged; not a single fire engine would start, and hoses had been slashed. To make matters worse, improvised spike strips had been deployed across the roads that the city’s firefighters would have to use when they responded. Firefighters would do their best to fight the fires, but it was over an hour before there was a proper co-ordinated response. In that time several of the fires had joined up, becoming huge blazes in their own right.

The factory would burn for the next 48 hours before firefighters were able to bring the fires under control. It was very clear to investigators that whoever had carried out the sabotage had known what they were doing.

*

Colonel Priabin had barely finished in Kiev when he and Major Galahkhov found themselves unexpectedly bundled aboard a Ka-226 helicopter. As the helicopter approached Kharkov the reason for their hurried departure became clear, a huge column of smoke could be seen rising into the air. Flames were also illuminating the night’s sky.

Блять.” Priabin muttered.

*

“I’m Colonel Priabin, State Security, this is Major Galahkhov, military intelligence. I believe you requested us, Comrade.” Priabin said to the senior firefighter once they had reached the Command Post.
“Yes, Comrade Colonel. We called you as soon as one of my men found this.” The firefighter replied, dropping what appeared to be the detonator for an IED. “The army bomb disposal people made the main device safe.”

Priabin picked it up and turned the device over in his hands. It appeared to be a well-made, sophisticated device. He handed it over to Galahkhov.

“I think we’ve found some of our missing plastic explosive, Comrade Colonel.” He said, as he studied the device. “See how a small piece of it is used to set off the main part of the device. It will need to be tested, but I would bet my pension it’s the stolen stuff. The bomb-maker wanted us to find this, he’s toying with us.”
“How so, Comrade Major?”

Galahkhov pointed to part of the detonator.

“See, the wires here and here have never been connected to the rest of the device. It’s not carelessness, or a mistake. They’ve been carefully caped off. He wants us to know he’s using our stuff against him.”
“So much for the amateur theory.”

2045 hours GMT. HQ CENTCOM (Forward), Camp As Sayliyah, Qatar.

General John Abazid, CINCCENT, sighed behind his desk as he went over one of the proposed operations in Iraq once Coalition Forces crossed the border. It had been a mixed bag of a day, with the Gulf Allies informing him that they were willing to contribute forces to an invasion of Iraq, to finish Saddam's regime once and for all, but that they were disappointed to find that X Corps didn't have the heavy bridging equipment needed to cross the Euphrates, not to mention Iraq's other rivers. He had informed the CJCS and had been told that it would take at least two weeks, if not more, to get the engineers and their equipment shipped over from the States. Mentally cursing whoever back in the '90s had drawn up CENTCOM's planning in Tampa for an Iraq contingency, he had to inform the Gulf Allies of that fact, as well as the need for at least one more heavy division if they were going to go all the way to Baghdad.

After meeting with the Gulf Allies' liaison officers, Abazid had a secure phone call with the Army Chief of Staff, who informed him that it would be several months at least before the first of the heavy formations now being formed would be available. Of course, NATO Europe had priority, and thus CENTCOM and PACCOM would be next in line. The Chief of Staff made no promises, but it was likely that one division would be trained for desert operations as it formed up, with the possibility that due to the need for light infantry in urban warfare such as one might expect in cities like Baghdad, the newly established 11th Airborne Division might be allocated to him. With the emphasis on might. As for the heavy unit? Either the 5th Armored or the 23rd Infantry (Mech) were likely candidates, but their performance in training would decide that.

Oh, well, you go with what they give you, the General noted. It was an old story. He had asked about additional air force reinforcements, but the AF was holding on to a number of AFRES and ANG squadrons as a strategic reserve, while at the same time, those with F-15s or F-16s were also being dual-tasked to NORAD. Additional units were forming with aircraft out of AMARC, but just as with the Army, the Air Force needed time to get those new squadrons worked up. And just as with the Army, so the AF, for NATO Europe would have priority for those reinforcements.

Abazid got up from his desk, intending to get to his quarters and have a few hours' sleep. If any General Officer anywhere in the world had gotten more than that since this started? They were more than likely dead, Abazid thought. Then his phone buzzed.

“Yes?”
“General?” His ADC asked over the phone. “The 'Omani' Liaison Officer is here. He says it's urgent.”

At this hour? Something must be up.

“Very well, Major. Send him in.”

Brig. Gen. Abbas Ahmadi came in. Though wearing the uniform of the Omani Army, he was Iranian, and had been in constant touch with CENTCOM's HQ and his superiors in Iran.

“General.” He said. Maintaining cover, he even saluted British style.
“General.” Abazid said pleasantly. “What brings you here at this hour?”
“I have some news from my superiors. Some good, others, not so.”

He opened his briefcase and took out some aerial photos. He also noticed Abazid's Situation Map.

“May I use the map, sir? I find it easier to talk with a map.”
“My people tell me the same thing.” Abazid said. “Go on.”

The “Omani” nodded, then went to the wall.

“My superiors authorized me to be blunt, General. Our planned offensive into Iraq is off. 'Postponed Indefinitely' is the term I was told.”

General Abazid went to the map. His own J-2 updated it regularly, with not just CENTCOM's and Iraqi dispositions, but the estimated Iranian ones. To his surprise, his visitor didn't mention how accurate it was.

“May I ask why?”

Ahamadi nodded again, then took out a briefing sheet from his briefcase.

“It's a combination of factors. We don't have the logistical infrastructure you do here, in America, or in Europe, and we're behind in our logistical preparations.”
“From what I've been told, those assets needed for your logistics are also needed to move your two remaining armored divisions.” Abazid pointed at the map at both Kerman and Zahedan.
“You are very well informed, General.”

Ahmadi was surprised but didn't show it.

Abazid smiled.

“We had some Iran contingency plans up until the Green Revolution.” He said. “In case the previous regime ever did anything stupid, like block the Strait of Hormuz.”
“Ah.” The “Omani” said.

He knew the old regime's previous plans in that regard. And the likelihood that there would be American and other Western intervention.

“Yes, which leads to the second factor. We'll be deploying those two divisions, but only as far as the Qum-Yazd area.”

CINCCENT recognized it at once.

“Strategic Reserve.”
“Yes, sir.” Ahmadi replied. “Along with the two Immortals Divisions. We don't know what the Soviets are up to with their forces in the Transcaucus MD and both the Turkestan and Central Asian Military Districts. They have divisions that are combat-ready or are approaching that status, and until we know more about what they're planning to do with those....”
“Your offensive is off.” Noted Abazid. It wasn't a question. “So, what's the good news?”
“We're putting an air-assault battalion and a Marine battalion into Faw at first light.”
“Do you need anything?” Abazid asked.

Ahmadi nodded.

“Yes, sir, now that you mention it.”

He showed Abazid the aerial photos, with Iraqi defences -ground, AAA, SAM, and Coastal SSM, marked. Though CENTAF's own assets had degraded them, enough remained to still be a threat.

“We'd like these taken out.”

Abazid looked at the photos, likely taken from an Iranian AF RF-4E. The targets were familiar, as Marine officers from Regimental Landing Team 24 had a Faw operation planned out as a follow-on to Bubiyan Island. Though one Marine battalion not involved in that operation had gotten into a serious urban fight in the Kuwaiti town of Abdali, along with the Australians, and that meant that Umm Qasr, just across the border, would be equally bad. No, RLT 24 would go back under the Multinational Division-the division-sized unit under Australian command, and that meant clearing the rest of Abdali, not to mention Umm Qasr.

“Do you plan on taking the whole Peninsula?”
“No, Sir. Just the city of Faw and the assets outlined on the imagery. We're staying within artillery range of our own border.”

A limited incursion, which might pay dividends later on, Abadizd thought.

“I'll have CENTAF put some sorties on those targets. Now, for obvious reasons, we can't give you any SOF to direct follow-on air strikes, but... If there are airborne FAC platforms in the area....”
“That would be greatly appreciated, General.” Ahmadi said. “I'll inform my superiors.” He paused, then took out a briefing sheet. Though the letterhead was “Omani”, it was translated into English. “We have information about your POWs in Baghdad, given your military's...concerns on such matters.”
“Go on, General.” Abadizd said. Any intelligence, no matter who provided it, on where American and Allied POWs were held was vital.
“One of our sources in Baghdad says that a number of Allied prisoners were moved from Al-Rashid two nights ago. And another source mentioned that he had seen some prisoners-nationality unknown, but he thinks they were Americans, arrive at a prison compound at Taji Military Garrison.”

General Abazid went to a map of the Baghdad area and found Taji. He also knew the area from intelligence reports-including some of the 1998 DESERT FOX targets.

“It's a military town.” And still in the Baghdad MEZ. Which meant any raid by Delta was a nonstarter due to the heavy SAM and AAA defences, not to mention the IrAF.
“Yes, and the military garrison? It's not just the airfield for Iraqi Army Aviation, but the garrison? It's the home of the RGFC Baghdad Division.”

Abadizd nodded. He thought, Have we scared them that bad with the Kut Raid? Saddam wouldn't want all of his bargaining chips in one basket. Nor did the North Vietnamese, back then. And it looked as if the Iraqis were following the NVN playbook when it came to POWs. His J-2 had captured documents from several Iraqi field headquarters, which emphasized the need to capture Americans, British, and other “Western” prisoners and send them to Baghdad.

“Thanks for this information, General. I'll make sure it gets to the right people, both here and in Washington. As for your requests?”

He went to a phone and called up COMCENTAF.

“Hal, John. I know you need some shut eye, but our 'Omani' liaison has some strike requests for you. And after that? Airborne FACs for tomorrow at least. Whatever he needs, he gets. Got that? Good. I'll let him know.” After hanging up, Abazid smiled.
“General, go right on down to CENTAF. General Hornburg is expecting you. And he has orders to make sure whatever you need, you get. With this sandstorm in Central Iraq, we have air assets available, he says.”
“Thank you, General.” Ahmadi said.

It wouldn't the full-blown offensive against a common enemy that would seal the renewed friendship between America and Iran, but that would come in time. He hoped. But when?

2101 hours GMT. Kotzebue, Alaska.
The two Su-24M2 swept over the airfield, dropping some 500lb bombs on the main parking area, destroying one of the other two 737s and damaging the terminal building. Fortunately, there had been just enough time to get personnel into cover, so there were no casualties.

*

“Go! Go now!” Azarov yelled.

Some of the airport vehicles that had been blocking the runway, including the fire trucks, had moved when the air raid warning had come in. The fire trucks were also now occupied with the burning 737 and a fire that had started in the terminal building.

Seeing the pilots hesitating, Azarov leaned forward and pushed the two throttles forward, around a third of the way. Enough to get the aircraft moving.

“Sh*t!” The pilot exclaimed. “Give me full throttle.” He told the First Officer.”
“You sure about this, Captain?” The First Officer asked, although he complied with the instruction.
“No, but I don’t see we have much choice in the matter!”

The 737 barrelled down the runway and lifted off, climbing steeply into the air. The two ‘Fencers’ returned, providing cover as the airliner gained altitude. For one of them, this action was almost its crew’s last – the American defenders had begun to recover and one of the recently arrived Stinger teams had managed to get set up and fired a missile at one of the Su-24s. The Soviet aircraft was right on the edge of the Stinger’s range, and it was able to escape via a combination of manoeuvring and decoys.

*

“Hornet Flight, this is Ice Cube. Follow targeting cues to intercept and destroy two ‘Fencers’. The targets must be visually identified before being engaged, as there is a civilian Seven Thirty-Seven in the same airspace. Once the ‘Fencers’ have been engaged, you are to try to persuade the airliner to return to Kotzebue, over.”
“Ice Cube, Hornet Lead, that’s a roger.”


2nd Lieutenant Charles ‘Charlie’ Bratton, flying an F-15C with the call-sign of Hornet Two, wondered how on earth they were going to convince a 737 to turn around short of shooting it down. He might well have brought down a ‘Backfire’ and a ‘Cub’ (taking return fire in the process), but what did he know? He was just a junior pilot.

*

The information sent via data link had positioned Hornet Flight in an almost perfect position to engage the pair of Su-24M2. Bratton lined up on the left-hand ‘Fencer’ and selected one of his Eagle’s AIM-9X and waited until he heard the characteristic ‘growl’ of lock-on in his headphones.

“Fox Two!” He announced as he fired.
“Fox Two!” He heard his flight lead say.

Bratton watched as the Sidewinder tracked the Soviet aircraft and expected to see his third kill. Instead, the ‘Fencer’ turned hard into the missile, releasing flares. Inexplicably, the most sophisticated AIM-9 variant in US service chose one of the flares.

“Sh*t!” Bratton exclaimed, wondering what had happened to the Sidewinder’s supposed anti-flare capabilities. “Fox Two!” He repeated.

Again, the Su-24 was able to evade the Sidewinder.

“Fox Three!” He heard Hornet One say and decided to do the same switching to AMRAAM.

While he was doing this, the ‘Fencer’ had gone into a steep dive and had ‘poured on the coals’, heading west at a high rate of knots. Once upon a time getting down to near wave top height might have saved an aircraft, but not when Bratton’s Eagle had an APG-63(V2) radar. The AESA radar easily tracked the fleeing Su-24 and locked on.

“Fox Three!”

This time the missile Bratton had fired flew true, ignoring the chaff the ‘Fencer’ released and blew the bomber’s tail off. Its crew did not have time to eject before the nose struck the Chukchi Sea and the aircraft tumbled over and over, breaking up into thousands of pieces.

“Two, this is Lead, you got eyes on the airliner, over?”

Bratton craned his neck and looked around.

“That’s a negative lead, over.”
“Hornet Flight, Ice Cube. You have six bogies closing on your position. They have been assessed as ‘Flankers’, over.”

2233 hours GMT. Muskö Naval Base, Sweden.
SAS Manthatisi was in her final approach to Muskö Naval Base. She had taken on a RSwN submarine officer several miles out in the mass and mess of the islands and islets of the Swedish archipelago. And yes, the approach was undertaken while dived.

Lt. Commander Mompati had become used to the sub skippers around the Baltic diving as soon as the minimum depth under keel was reached by now and knew to implicitly trust the suggestions/orders of the, well, pilot. It had taken an ungodly long time to navigate around the east and north coast of Muskö, but it would not do at all for a Soviet satellite or MPA to spot them.

Presently, the Örlogskapten, standing behind the navigation table and console with a digital stopwatch, piped up quietly.

“…next and final course, zero-eight-six, hard left rudder, speed five knots, maintain depth, eight meters under keel in thirty seconds.” Mompati nodded and finally uttered a command that made all present in the command room grin. “Make it so, Number One.” to his First OOW.
“…ten seconds…five, four, three, two, one. Mark.”
“Make revolutions for five knots. Hard left rudder. Next course zero-eight-six, maintain depth under keel.”

The submarine silently and with a barely perceptible list turned.

“New course zero-eight-six.”
“Aye.” Mompati confirmed.

The Swedish officer looked at his watch.

“Five cables. Three minutes, twenty seconds. Follow with surfacing procedure, while slowing down. We should be ten meters away from the berth then.”

Mompati nodded at the Swede. Has the feel of entering some Bond villain’s secret lair. Only the dramatic music is missing. Where is Hans Zimmer when you need him?

*

Barely had SAS Manthatisi begun mooring at her subterranean berth and a gangway been secured, a slew of trucks containing resupplies of food, fuel and spare parts rolled up. Two trucks painted in the Norwegian camouflage scheme and bearing Royal Norwegian Navy identification made up the rear of the new convoy. The two vehicles had been loaded with DM2A4 torpedoes from the Vestre Bolaerne Island naval ammunition depot that was also used by the Bundesmarine on the shores of the outer Oslo Fjord not quite twenty hours ago and driven to Muskö so Manthatisi could reload her magazines.

*

Lieutenant Commander Mompati stood in the sail of his submarine, taking in his surroundings and the increasing hubbub on the pier. He gave orders to prepare the boat for supply operations, wondering whether and when somebody would turn up in an official capacity for a proper reception. He was properly knackered and longed for a long shower and at least eight hours of uninterrupted sleep.

Hardly had he finished the thought when a Swedish Navy G-Wagen appeared from the tunnel the trucks had come from and came to a halt, tires screeching on the concrete of the pier. Mompati looked up from his microphone and saw three people disembarking the vehicle. One was the South African Naval Attaché to Sweden, Commander Henk Westerlonge, another submariner, the second was Stefan Ciliax, hefting a sea bag and wearing German Navy BGA fatigues while the third one was a Kommendörkapten with an aiguillette on his shoulder designating him as the likely liaison officer to SAS Manthatisi.

While the South African and Swedish officer gave of a business-like air, Ciliax waved enthusiastically to Mompati and shouted.

“PAULE! Congratulations on your success, Alter! Half of the submariners in the Bundesmarine are green with envy, me included. I want details. I want AALLLL the gory details!”

Mompati felt a grin form on his face. The other two officers looked more German in their bearing at the moment than the German. The Swede had actually flinched a bit at the sudden outburst of enthusiasm from Ciliax. Man, he had missed his friend.
He proceeded to climb down the ladder in the sail to the weather deck and emerged from the deck hatch, walking up the gangway, coming to attention and saluting the naval attaché.

“Lieutenant Commander Mompati reporting, sir, claiming three enemy vessels sunk, one damaged nuclear battle cruiser and one helicopter shot down.”

The naval attaché returned the salute, replying.

“Thank you, Commander Mompati and congratulations from the ambassador and the naval HQ back home.”

That said and done, his military demeanour softened considerably, and he shook Mompati’s hand and caught him in a friendly bear hug.

“I can only echo Stefan’s words. Good to see you, Paul, and I hope we will discuss this over a few brews.”

Now it was the Swedish liaison officer’s turn. The military protocol done and over with he smiled, said.

“Call me Tommy, and no, I do not have a sister called Annika.” Giving an exasperatedly amused aside glance to Stefan Ciliax. “As much as we all feel you have more than earned some time off, we will have to send you out again as soon as possible. Korvettenkapitän Ciliax – Stefan – has the details. Let’s relocate to a small conference room down in the complex.”

2301 hours GMT. Outside Kato Nevrokopi, northern Greece.
After surviving twenty-three days of near continuous attacks, the Greek border defences had finally begun to crack in places. What troops could be saved had been evacuated and the fortifications they had manned blown up. Those who could not be withdrawn before the Soviets and Bulgarians had cut them off had been ordered to continue fighting for as long as they had means to resist.

The resistance and sacrifice of the border defences had allowed the Greek 1st Army to establish a new defensive line. It was partially based on fixed defensive positions and partially on mobile armoured forces. With the 24th Infantry Division reassigned to IV Corps to the east, the defence in this sector, held by III Corps, would be an all-Greek affair. At least until further NATO forces arrived.

*

Lieutenant George Spiridakos was very pleased with the appearance of his platoon of tanks. In the two days since they were issued, his men had cleaned them up, removing the streaks of rust and repainting them. The paint had been applied by hand, which gave the tanks a somewhat mottled appearance, but it was still a great improvement. The missing track pads had also been replaced. Quite where everything had come from, Spiridakos did not know and had no intention of asking.

Now fully ‘bombed up’ and fuelled, the scratch platoon had been dispatched to join troops from XI Infantry Division, who had dug in outside Kato Nevrokopi, being attached to a company from the divisional tank battalion. That particular battalion was equipped with the M60TTS, rather than the older M48 MOLF that Spiridakos’ platoon had.

It was barely half an hour after the platoon had taken up its positions when the Soviet shelling began. The shelling was concentrated on the narrow valley to the north of Kato Nevrokopi, down which Soviet armour would have to pass. The Soviets seemed less interested in the infantry dug in on the hillsides. Their artillery also pounded the town itself, whether that was because they thought that Greek soldiers occupied it, or just because they could, was not clear.

Through the shell bursts, Spiridakos could see the first Soviet T-72s approaching. He was pleased to see that his platoon was on their flank, which made it more likely that the 105mm guns on his M48s would be able to penetrate the Soviet tank’s armour.

“Gunner! Target tank! Load sabot!”

*

“Fire!” Lieutenant Savalas ordered.

Almost simultaneously the six 5.5inch guns of his battery opened fire. The battery was sighted in some existing protected positions to the southeast of Fort Lisse. There was a chance that the enemy knew about them, but they were the best positions available, so it was a risk that had to be taken. At least they had personnel shelters in which Savalas’ men could retreat to if counter-battery fire came in.

*

The valley in front of Spiridakos’ platoon was now filled with burning Soviet armoured vehicles. However, while his platoon was intact, there were also quite a number of burning Greek vehicles. As he waited for the next Soviet attack, he was surprised when the captain he had met back at Fort Lisse climbed up onto his tank’s turret.

“Need you to pull your platoon out of the line, Lieutenant.” He said. “The Russians have used helicopters to drop troops to our south. If we don’t clear the highway, they’ll have cut our main line of supply.”

***
“Frankly, I had enjoyed the war… and why do people want peace if the war is so much fun?” - Lieutenant General Sir Adrian Carton de Wiart
Bernard Woolley
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Accompanying Pictures

Post by Bernard Woolley »

Accompanying Pictures
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“Frankly, I had enjoyed the war… and why do people want peace if the war is so much fun?” - Lieutenant General Sir Adrian Carton de Wiart
Eaglenine2
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Eaglenine2 »

Looks like people are having fun in Malyshev Factory.
Question which new formations are being formed?
Jotun
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Jotun »

Okay, that was real quick!

Knowing Soviet predilections for the One Big Facility, how long would it take how many people to sabotage such a behemoth that comprehensively? The Ukrainian resistance must be quite powerful.

Interesting developments in the Gulf. You fight with what you have, not what you want. It takes longer to smash the Iraqis, but I cannot imagine any other outcome. Just with more lives expended…

In any case, thanks for the chapter, and happy to contribute, as always!
Bernard Woolley
Posts: 998
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:06 pm
Location: Earth

Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Bernard Woolley »

Eaglenine2 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 6:32 pmQuestion which new formations are being formed?
New US Army formations? From the list Matt W & James1978 have put together:

- 5th Armored Division - Ft. Riley, KS
- 6th Armored Division - Ft. Bliss, TX
- 23rd Infantry Division (Mechanized) - Ft. Hood, TX
- 69th Infantry Division (Light) - Ft. Drum, NY (a nice division ;) )
- 71st Infantry Division (Light) - Ft. Ord, CA
- 92nd Infantry Division (Motorized)(Heavy) - Ft. Carson, CO
- 196th Infantry Brigade (Mechanized) - Ft. Lewis, WA
- 199th Infantry Brigade (Motorized) - Ft. Campbell, KY
- 198th Infantry Brigade (Light) - Schofield Barracks, HI
- 26th Armored Cavalry Regiment - Ft. Stewart, GA
- 2nd Brigade, 11th Airborne Division - Ft. Lewis, WA
- 3rd Brigade, 11th Airborne Division
- 13th Air Assault Brigade - Ft. Campbell, KY
- 17th Airborne Brigade - Ft. Bragg, NC
- 11th Military Police Brigade - Ft. Devens, MA
- 290th Military Police Brigade - Fort Polk, LA

At the moment they are essentially cadres.

Jotun wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 7:21 pm Okay, that was real quick!
Helps when other people write about half of it for me! :D
Jotun wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 7:21 pmKnowing Soviet predilections for the One Big Facility, how long would it take how many people to sabotage such a behemoth that comprehensively?
Probably fewer than one might think, I'd guess.
Jotun wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 7:21 pmThe Ukrainian resistance must be quite powerful.
Determined and smart, is how I would describe them.
Jotun wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 7:21 pmIn any case, thanks for the chapter, and happy to contribute, as always!
You are very welcome & many thanks again.
“Frankly, I had enjoyed the war… and why do people want peace if the war is so much fun?” - Lieutenant General Sir Adrian Carton de Wiart
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jemhouston
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by jemhouston »

Did the Ukrainian resistance fight on till the 50s after WW2?
Bernard Woolley
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Bernard Woolley »

The UPA fought on until 1953, with isolated actions as late as 1956.
“Frankly, I had enjoyed the war… and why do people want peace if the war is so much fun?” - Lieutenant General Sir Adrian Carton de Wiart
clancyphile
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by clancyphile »

Bernard Woolley wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 7:30 pm
Eaglenine2 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 6:32 pmQuestion which new formations are being formed?
New US Army formations? From the list Matt W & James1978 have put together:

- 5th Armored Division - Ft. Riley, KS
- 6th Armored Division - Ft. Bliss, TX
- 23rd Infantry Division (Mechanized) - Ft. Hood, TX
- 69th Infantry Division (Light) - Ft. Drum, NY (a nice division ;) )
- 71st Infantry Division (Light) - Ft. Ord, CA
- 92nd Infantry Division (Motorized)(Heavy) - Ft. Carson, CO
- 196th Infantry Brigade (Mechanized) - Ft. Lewis, WA
- 199th Infantry Brigade (Motorized) - Ft. Campbell, KY
- 198th Infantry Brigade (Light) - Schofield Barracks, HI
- 26th Armored Cavalry Regiment - Ft. Stewart, GA
- 2nd Brigade, 11th Airborne Division - Ft. Lewis, WA
- 3rd Brigade, 11th Airborne Division
- 13th Air Assault Brigade - Ft. Campbell, KY
- 17th Airborne Brigade - Ft. Bragg, NC
- 11th Military Police Brigade - Ft. Devens, MA
- 290th Military Police Brigade - Fort Polk, LA

At the moment they are essentially cadres.

Jotun wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 7:21 pm Okay, that was real quick!
Helps when other people write about half of it for me! :D
Jotun wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 7:21 pmKnowing Soviet predilections for the One Big Facility, how long would it take how many people to sabotage such a behemoth that comprehensively?
Probably fewer than one might think, I'd guess.
Jotun wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 7:21 pmThe Ukrainian resistance must be quite powerful.
Determined and smart, is how I would describe them.
Jotun wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 7:21 pmIn any case, thanks for the chapter, and happy to contribute, as always!
You are very welcome & many thanks again.
A suggestion, if I may? Replace the 13th Air Assault Division with the 11th Air Assault Division, which was re-flagged as the 1st Cavalry Division when it went to Vietnam.
http://www.armyaviationmagazine.com/ind ... ion-test-2
Matt Wiser
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Matt Wiser »

Whoo-hoo! Glad to be of help in the new chapter, and BZ! And so to business...

Somebody knew exactly what to do at that tank plant in terms of knowing where and how to put their charges, how to inflict maximum damage, and get away with it. (for now, anyway)

CINC-CENT wants to do the Iraq phase of the campaign right. And he and his staff have to plan and prepare for the worst case-fighting all the way from Kuwait to Baghdad, and possibly beyond. And until that heavy bridging equipment arrives, all they can do is operate south of the Euphrates, threaten Basra, and maybe grab a bridgehead or two. (An Nasiriya and As Samawah are the two possibilities in that regard).

Looks like that 737 might just get away....

Soviets pushing ahead in the Balkans...

The Swedes really hardened their base facilities. Just how hardened, they still won't tell.

Nice job to all involved, and get with 360!
The difference between diplomacy and war is this: Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so elegantly that they pack for the trip.
War is bringing hell down on that someone.
Bernard Woolley
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Bernard Woolley »

clancyphile wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 2:08 am A suggestion, if I may? Replace the 13th Air Assault Division with the 11th Air Assault Division, which was re-flagged as the 1st Cavalry Division when it went to Vietnam.
I’m a little confused here. You want an 11th Air Assault Division and an 11th Airborne Division? I.e reflag the 13th Air Assault Brigade as a Division when there are already two brigades of the 11th Airborne. :?
“Frankly, I had enjoyed the war… and why do people want peace if the war is so much fun?” - Lieutenant General Sir Adrian Carton de Wiart
Simon Darkshade
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Simon Darkshade »

I think he misread the brigade as a division.

Insofar as “new” divisions go, the suggestions are sound, reflecting this https://history.army.mil/books/Lineage/reflag/appD.htm

Regular: 1,2,3 AD, 1 CD, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,24,25 ID, 82 ABN, 101 AA
USARNG: 26,28,29,34,35,38,40,42 ID, 49,50 AD
Reserve: 4 AD

So definitely 5 and 6 AD, 11 ABN and 23 ID, reflecting the above link.

If we set aside the National Guard divisions deactivated in the 1940s-1970s (27th, 30th, 31st, 32nd, 33rd, 36th, 37th, 39th, 41st, 43rd, 44th, 45th, 46th, 47th and the 51st ID as a post WW2 Johnnie come lately plus the 48th ID/AD), then we get into the Army of the United States divisions of WW2.

Setting aside the USAR Training Divisions (70,76,78, 80, 84, 85, 91, 95, 98, 100, 104, 108), the MACs (75 and 87) and the ARCOMs with direct divisional lineage (63, 77, 79, 81, 83, 86, 88, 89, 90, 94, 96, 97, 99 and 102), we get the following units available:

65th ID (55 days combat)
66th ID (91 days combat)
69th ID (86 days combat)
71st ID (62 days combat)
92nd ID (200 days combat + WW1 service)
93rd ID (175 days combat + WW1 service)
103rd ID (147 days combat)
106th ID (63 days combat)

In terms of lineage, I might have gone for the 66th over the 71st if that was the only consideration.

The next step after those divisions, if the war goes long enough and should there be a need, is to begin cycling some of the ARCOMs back into combat divisions, leaving the training establishments/units intact. The deactivated National Guard divisions in many cases became separate brigades or brigades attached to existing divisions, so unravelling them for reactivation would be a more serious task; they aren't akin to the second line TA divisions of the British Army in 1939.
Last edited by Simon Darkshade on Tue May 02, 2023 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
clancyphile
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by clancyphile »

Bernard Woolley wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 11:06 am
clancyphile wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 2:08 am A suggestion, if I may? Replace the 13th Air Assault Division with the 11th Air Assault Division, which was re-flagged as the 1st Cavalry Division when it went to Vietnam.
I’m a little confused here. You want an 11th Air Assault Division and an 11th Airborne Division? I.e reflag the 13th Air Assault Brigade as a Division when there are already two brigades of the 11th Airborne. :?
I must have missed the 11th Airborne. My apologies.

Maybe re-flag the 11th Airborne as the 13th Airborne or 17th Airborne, move the 11th to Air Assault?
Louie
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Louie »

Simon Darkshade wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 11:54 am I think he misread the brigade as a division.

Insofar as “new” divisions go, the suggestions are sound, reflecting this https://history.army.mil/books/Lineage/reflag/appD.htm

Regular: 1,2,3 AD, 1 CD, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,24,25 ID, 82 ABN, 101 AA
USARNG: 26,28,29,34,35,38,40,42 ID, 49,50 AD
Reserve: 4 AD

So definitely 5 and 6 AD, 11 ABN and 23 ID, reflecting the above link.

If we set aside the National Guard divisions deactivated in the 1940s-1970s (27th, 30th, 31st, 32nd, 33rd, 36th, 37th, 39th, 41st, 43rd, 44th, 45th, 46th, 47th and the 51st ID as a post WW2 Johnnie come lately plus the 48th ID/AD), then we get into the Army of the United States divisions of WW2.

Setting aside the USAR Training Divisions (70,76,78, 80, 84, 85, 91, 95, 98, 100, 104, 108), the MACs (75 and 87) and the ARCOMs with direct divisional lineage (63, 77, 79, 81, 83, 86, 88, 89, 90, 94, 96, 97, 99 and 102), we get the following units available:

65th ID (55 days combat)
66th ID (91 days combat)
69th ID (86 days combat)
71st ID (62 days combat)
92nd ID (200 days combat + WW1 service)
93rd ID (175 days combat + WW1 service)
103rd ID (147 days combat)
106th ID (63 days combat)

In terms of lineage, I might have gone for the 66th over the 71st if that was the only consideration.

The next step after those divisions, if the war goes long enough and should there be a need, is to begin cycling some of the ARCOMs back into combat divisions, leaving the training establishments/units intact. The deactivated National Guard divisions in many cases became separate brigades or brigades attached to existing divisions, so unravelling them for reactivation would be a more serious task; they aren't akin to the second line TA divisions of the British Army in 1939.
Simon,

I believe the 71st Inf Div comes ahead of the 66th because it was active as part of the Regular Army in the mid to late 1950’s IIRC. It was the controlling HQ for units in Alaska and Pacific NW.

Also US Army Div Lineage is based on

Age--one point for each year since initial organization. (No points are subtracted for periods of inactive status.)

Campaign participation credit--two points for each campaign.

US unit decorations--two points for each award.

So even though both the 66th & 71st were activated in 1943, the 71st has two Campaign Credits (4 points) and the 66th only one (2 points)
Simon Darkshade
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Simon Darkshade »

Louie,

Quite right on the 71st having that brief time as the static division for Alaska in 54-56; I do find that mid 1950s period of the end of Korea/pre New Look cuts quite fascinating as a niche historical topic.

Even with the additional 7 cadre divisions, that only gets the US Army to 36, or the full US muster to 40 with the Marines. Back on one of the old boards, there was a post on the US Army’s estimates on the number of divisions needed for each theatre that would be useful now.
Louie
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Louie »

Lol,

Simon that was me!!! Let me find it again but 36 is the exact number the Army said it needed !!
Simon Darkshade
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Simon Darkshade »

I thought it might have been you, but didn’t want to put you on the spot based on memory alone. As I recall, 36 was the low-ish end figure of several, but could be wrong.

Once you get it, it might be worth adding to the US Army orbat thread so it can be saved in that context.
Louie
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Louie »

Simon,
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Louie
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Louie »

Simon,

https://history.army.mil/html/books/040 ... index.html

TAA-92 Force Allocation (written in 1987)
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Simon Darkshade
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by Simon Darkshade »

Louie,

Thank you very much! A great resource and the visual representation of the Current Force allows some interesting thought. I have used the Minimum Risk Force as the basis for some of my own DE force modelling, albeit modified for threat, scale and circumstance, as well as the ongoing 1950s tripartite divisional split.

Excellent resource.

Simon
James1978
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Re: The Last War: 359.

Post by James1978 »

Good chapter!

Nice to see some of my random research be helpful!

Re. Plant 75 - that's gonna hurt. Though the Soviets do have three other tank plants, and theoretically have produced a disturbing number of tanks since TLWverse 1990.

I had some thoughts on CENTCOM's quandaries. Check your email.

Well I did not see that coming with Major Azarov. Well played, sir, well played indeed.

Nice to see Muskö naval base. Every time I think about it and it's Norwegian cousin, Olavsvern, I think about what an enticing target they'd make for PGMs with thermobaric warheads. I'm funny that way.

Keep up the good work!
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