Star Trek: Picard - Season 3

[Micael]

Incidentally Discovery just got cancelled, the fifth season will be the last. That opens up for a potential Picard follow up show.

Can’t say I am sad. Never really got into Disco.

I’m not sure a Picard follow-on works. Picard has been terrible at developing some of new characters (such as Elnor), and has absolutely abandoned all the new characters they have developed except Raffi. There’s not much except TNG nostalgia, unless they want to build on Shaw and Sidney LaForge.

That’s what irritates me so much about how Picard handled the world and people it established in Season 1. They were effectively abandoned and hunky-doryied by diving into the past.

I’d much prefer a Fenris Rangers series, especially focusing on Icheb’s time with them. It would be absolutely heartbreaking, since we know how it ends, but there’s so much there to explore.

Especially if we get into why there are so many xBs and market for Borg nanotechnology.

Essentially pre-Matalas reign though, and the storytelling style in the beginning made it so that the ensemble cast was rather split up and distant from one another. I suspect that Matalas is at least considering a series set on a starship, possibly with Riker as Captain and Seven as the first officer. And the rest of the remaining Picard cast slotted in (including the Titan bridge crew but minus Stewart). That’s a foundation that you could build on.

[brutus]

Poor Picard, he has been getting a lot of disrespect this season.

Shaw disses him twice when he and Riker show up for dinner in Shaw's cabin. First, when he starts eating the meal without them, then he puts down the wine that Picard gave to him. But I think Shaw was correct to do that. Picard and Riker show up on the Titan for an "inspection", even though neither of them has any connection to the ship or to Shaw (Riker's only connection to the ship is that it has 1.) the same name painted on the hull and 2.) the same computer core as his old ship). So this is Shaw's way of telling them that he knows something is up and he's going to find out what it is.

As for the show itself, I'm liking it, but I'm not loving it yet. Its imitating ST II: TWOK too much. We have two admirals, one middle aged and one old who both find out they have sons that they've never seen. Both react the same way - "why didn't you let me help?" Both women respond the same way - "you had your world and I had mine, and I wanted him in mine." In Beverly's case to protect her son.

Then we have two battles going in inside of nebulas. Although this time

Spoiler!

they're fighting with Acme Portable Holes.

[brutus]

Incidentally Discovery just got cancelled, the fifth season will be the last. That opens up for a potential Picard follow up show.

Not really. Patrick Stewart may be 82, but Picard is most definitely older. He was born in 2305. Season 1 took place in 2399 and Season 2 took place in 2401. Season 3 can't take place until 2402 at the earliest, making him at least 97 or damn close to it. I read an article earlier today that, while not giving a date for this season, said that Picard is now over 100 years old.

Galloping around the cosmos may not be a game for the young, but it isn't for someone that old either.

Besides, would Stewart really want to work twelve hours a day or more all the time for several more years?

[Micael]

Incidentally Discovery just got cancelled, the fifth season will be the last. That opens up for a potential Picard follow up show.

Not really. Patrick Stewart may be 82, but Picard is most definitely older. He was born in 2305. Season 1 took place in 2399 and Season 2 took place in 2401. Season 3 can't take place until 2402 at the earliest, making him at least 97 or damn close to it. I read an article earlier today that, while not giving a date for this season, said that Picard is now over 100 years old.

Galloping around the cosmos may not be a game for the young, but it isn't for someone that old either.

Besides, would Stewart really want to work twelve hours a day or more all the time for several more years?

No Patrick Stewart won’t, hence ”follow up” rather than more seasons of Picard. The show ended after season 3 because Stewart didn’t feel up for more seasons. I’m referring to a continuation of the storyline with other cast members from Picard, under a new show name.

[Johnnie Lyle]

Poor Picard, he has been getting a lot of disrespect this season.

Shaw disses him twice when he and Riker show up for dinner in Shaw's cabin. First, when he starts eating the meal without them, then he puts down the wine that Picard gave to him. But I think Shaw was correct to do that. Picard and Riker show up on the Titan for an "inspection", even though neither of them has any connection to the ship or to Shaw (Riker's only connection to the ship is that it has 1.) the same name painted on the hull and 2.) the same computer core as his old ship). So this is Shaw's way of telling them that he knows something is up and he's going to find out what it is.

Shaw’s issue with Picard is due to Locutus. Just like his issue with Seven. We don’t know the source of his animus towards the Borg, but it probably has something to do with the loss of USS CONSTANCE we see in the end credits.

Shaw’s issue with Riker is that Shaw is TITAN’s new guy, and Riker is her old guy. That clearly plays out in their conversation about deleting Riker’s jazz.

Picard deserved the dressing down from Beverly, though it wasn’t as poised and polished. There’s absolutely no way Picard was being a husband or a father, and Beverly and Jack would lose every time something came up. Picard does not play to someone else’s tune, nor does he take well to being told no. Protecting Jack is part of it, but she’s seriously mad at being second fiddle to the stars. Especially when people don’t come back. It’s probably no surprise she was done with it right when Riker and Troi got married. Riker is the anti-Picard that way; we see Troi snipe at him, but when it was TITAN or Troi, Riker chose Troi, Thaddeus and Kestra.

Picard would not have chosen Beverly and Jack.

Picard also earned the dressing down from Riker, but not how it was given. Oddly enough, it’s Crusher’s scene as acting XO during First Contact that makes the point. Riker is in command. Picard is not. Riker has made his decision and the conversation ceases, especially in public. If Picard wants to discuss this, you take it into the Observation Lounge or the Ready Room. Picard has admirably displayed this flaw of Picard across three seasons. He is absolutely petulant when he doesn’t get his way.

Picard is way too damn eager to fight, and can’t wait until Riker is ready to launch that photon. Now, I can be as bellicose as the next starship captain, but TITAN had one chance - to sucker punch SHRIKE right at the beginning. After that, especially after the explosion aboard due to sabotage, fighting was not an option. Doubly so with slow torpedoes when the opposition has a freaking space portal gun.

But Riker chose to fire, not Picard. And dressing downs for poor advice are done in private, in the Ready Room. Riker knows this.

As for the show itself, I'm liking it, but I'm not loving it yet. Its imitating ST II: TWOK too much. We have two admirals, one middle aged and one old who both find out they have sons that they've never seen. Both react the same way - "why didn't you let me help?" Both women respond the same way - "you had your world and I had mine, and I wanted him in mine." In Beverly's case to protect her son.

Then we have two battles going in inside of nebulas. Although this time

Spoiler!

they're fighting with Acme Portable Holes.

Sorta. TNG teased the will they/won’t they all series long, and even played a similar storyline in reverse in “All Good Things . . . ” so it’s not unknown territory the way it was with Kirk. Nor did Kirk display Picard’s antipathy towards children and having a family. So it’s a shock with Kirk in a way it shouldn’t be with Picard.

Hiding in the nebula is also a big element of Best of Both Worlds.

[Micael]

Episode 4 down, I’m really liking this. The development of Shaw was quite good, among other things.

[Johnnie Lyle]

Episode 4 down, I’m really liking this. The development of Shaw was quite good, among other things.

Shaw is a good character, played very well, but a pretty bad captain. He violates a lot of the rules a captain has to behave according to in order to retain the faith and trust of his crew. He absolutely should not have given Picard that speech in front of his crew. A captain wondering why me and calling himself just a dipshit from Chicago is not building his crew’s faith in himself. Compare that to where Sisko gives Picard a tonguelashing - they’re alone and in the observation lounge.

But he is a great, flawed character. His interactions with Seven are great, as is hotwiring the nacelles.

The end gives warm fuzzies, and the interaction between Riker and Troi at the end is awesome. So is Riker’s payback to Vadic.

I’m really liking this.

[Micael]

Episode 4 down, I’m really liking this. The development of Shaw was quite good, among other things.

Shaw is a good character, played very well, but a pretty bad captain. He violates a lot of the rules a captain has to behave according to in order to retain the faith and trust of his crew. He absolutely should not have given Picard that speech in front of his crew. A captain wondering why me and calling himself just a dipshit from Chicago is not building his crew’s faith in himself. Compare that to where Sisko gives Picard a tonguelashing - they’re alone and in the observation lounge.

But he is a great, flawed character. His interactions with Seven are great, as is hotwiring the nacelles.

The end gives warm fuzzies, and the interaction between Riker and Troi at the end is awesome. So is Riker’s payback to Vadic.

I’m really liking this.

I’m thinking they may have gotten some inspiration from the Battlestar Pegasus CO Garner, an originally engineering officer with poor judgment and people skills but in the end clearly having his heart in the right place. As enthusiastic of an SciFi fan that Matalas seems to be I presume that he’s watched BSG.

[Johnnie Lyle]

Episode 4 down, I’m really liking this. The development of Shaw was quite good, among other things.

Shaw is a good character, played very well, but a pretty bad captain. He violates a lot of the rules a captain has to behave according to in order to retain the faith and trust of his crew. He absolutely should not have given Picard that speech in front of his crew. A captain wondering why me and calling himself just a dipshit from Chicago is not building his crew’s faith in himself. Compare that to where Sisko gives Picard a tonguelashing - they’re alone and in the observation lounge.

But he is a great, flawed character. His interactions with Seven are great, as is hotwiring the nacelles.

The end gives warm fuzzies, and the interaction between Riker and Troi at the end is awesome. So is Riker’s payback to Vadic.

I’m really liking this.

I’m thinking they may have gotten some inspiration from the Battlestar Pegasus CO Garner, an originally engineering officer with poor judgment and people skills but in the end clearly having his heart in the right place. As enthusiastic of an SciFi fan that Matalas seems to be I presume that he’s watched BSG.

But without killing him off. There’s a very clear redemption arc.

Though Trek does have a reputation for bad captains, so he’s also honoring that.

[Micael]

Shaw is a good character, played very well, but a pretty bad captain. He violates a lot of the rules a captain has to behave according to in order to retain the faith and trust of his crew. He absolutely should not have given Picard that speech in front of his crew. A captain wondering why me and calling himself just a dipshit from Chicago is not building his crew’s faith in himself. Compare that to where Sisko gives Picard a tonguelashing - they’re alone and in the observation lounge.

But he is a great, flawed character. His interactions with Seven are great, as is hotwiring the nacelles.

The end gives warm fuzzies, and the interaction between Riker and Troi at the end is awesome. So is Riker’s payback to Vadic.

I’m really liking this.

I’m thinking they may have gotten some inspiration from the Battlestar Pegasus CO Garner, an originally engineering officer with poor judgment and people skills but in the end clearly having his heart in the right place. As enthusiastic of an SciFi fan that Matalas seems to be I presume that he’s watched BSG.

But without killing him off. There’s a very clear redemption arc.

Though Trek does have a reputation for bad captains, so he’s also honoring that.

They’re not identical, but they have some commonalities. Though the ending of Garner could be said to be a redemption as well.

[Johnnie Lyle]

I’m thinking they may have gotten some inspiration from the Battlestar Pegasus CO Garner, an originally engineering officer with poor judgment and people skills but in the end clearly having his heart in the right place. As enthusiastic of an SciFi fan that Matalas seems to be I presume that he’s watched BSG.

But without killing him off. There’s a very clear redemption arc.

Though Trek does have a reputation for bad captains, so he’s also honoring that.

They’re not identical, but they have some commonalities. Though the ending of Garner could be said to be a redemption as well.

Haven’t seen BSG vibes (despite BSG being a literal descendant of Trek via Ronald D. Moore and what Voyager should have been), but I clearly see Mass Effect and Portal vibes.

Also, if Shaw is well enough to perform these duties, he’s well enough to be on the bridge. Your job as captain is to take the hits and keep on ticking. All a captain needs is brains and balls. As soon as the medics patch you up enough that you’re not bleeding out, eat your damn salad and get your ass in the chair.

Yes, that’s a reference to when the Big Chair was mine.

Todd Stashwick plays Shaw well, and with a clear sense of what Trek means and is, but Shaw also has a long way to go to really earn the Big Chair. The Big Chair is all about faith - faith in your people, and faith in yourself. Because, fundamentally, there will be days when the only thing keeping your people alive and going is faith in you, the fear they might let you down, and the fervent belief that will not happen. Similarly, whatever you are going through, there will be a point where the only thing keeping you going is faith in your people, the fear that you might let them down, and the fervent belief that will not happen.

You can’t be Shaw in front of your crew. You will never give Shaw’s monologue in front of your crew. It’s a fantastic monologue, but it’s not something a good captain would say where his people can see it. You have to keep the faith, be a god, be invincible.

Compare Shaw to Riker. Riker is as broken or damaged as you can get, but he bares that only in the Observation Lounge in Ep 4. On the bridge, in public, he takes advice, formulates a plan, and they execute it. Only Picard, Crusher, Jack and Seven see the bleakness. Ep 3 should have done that, but Ep 4 corrects it.

[MikeKozlowski]

....As far as I'm concerned, the Constance story is right up there with the Indianapolis story in Jaws - a brilliant bit of backstory that not only fills in the apparent spaces in the story, but makes it possible for you to imagine the horrors that accompanied it that made the character who they are.

Mike

[Johnnie Lyle]

....As far as I'm concerned, the Constance story is right up there with the Indianapolis story in Jaws - a brilliant bit of backstory that not only fills in the apparent spaces in the story, but makes it possible for you to imagine the horrors that accompanied it that made the character who they are.

Mike

Todd Stashwick explicitly states that was the intention. He really shines as Shaw.

[Johnnie Lyle]

Shaw is also named for Robert Shaw, who played Quint in Jaws, furthering the analogy.

[Johnnie Lyle]

That one hurt.

Spoiler!

Ro Laren.

[Micael]

That one hurt.

Spoiler!

Ro Laren.

Indeed.

[Johnnie Lyle]

That one hurt.

Indeed.

Especially after the early tease with the idea

Spoiler!

where Worf fakes his own death.

And the Duderstadt class is fugly.

[James1978]

Yea, that was a gut punch. Finally learning the fate of that character, and then what happened happens.
There was a lot of potential there.

[Johnnie Lyle]

Yea, that was a gut punch. Finally learning the fate of that character, and then what happened happens.
There was a lot of potential there.

Given how S3 likes flashbacks, I hope we see more of her in them. I also hope they can interweave more of the character into the storyline l, so while (probably) dead, the character is not gone from the remaining five episodes.

[James1978]

Yea, that was a gut punch. Finally learning the fate of that character, and then what happened happens.
There was a lot of potential there.

Given how S3 likes flashbacks, I hope we see more of her in them. I also hope they can interweave more of the character into the storyline l, so while (probably) dead, the character is not gone from the remaining five episodes.

Hopefully! We got a small glimpse of the intensity that actress can bring to a role, and I for one would love to see more of that character.