Trump Orders Navy to Restore Older Tech on Aircraft Carriers, Costing Billions

[brovane]

How does this make any sense? New technology has issues, US navy works through the issues and long term it will be better for US navy carriers.

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/trump-order ... _permalink

President Trump has directed the Navy to tear out a complex system for launching jet fighters from its aircraft carriers and instead go back to using steam catapults, a move Navy officials have fought for years and will likely cost billions of dollars.

U.S. officials say Trump signed a national security memorandum Thursday directing the change, which would involve removing the electromagnetic catapult system used by the ships in the Gerald R. Ford class of carriers.

By doing so, Trump is making good on a promise he made almost 10 years ago to go back to the steam system after hearing a sailor praise it while visiting a ship during his first term.

But since Trump said in an interview with Time in 2017 that he told the Navy to go back to “goddamn steam,” top Navy and industry leaders have resisted the move because of the enormous expense to tear out such a complex system that was integral to the design of the Ford class.

The move directs the Navy to redesign the fourth ship in the class—to be named the Doris Miller—and all remaining ships. The first three ships—the Ford, John F. Kennedy and Enterprise—will retain the electromagnetic system.

“They’re not nearly as good, too complex,” Trump said last month at a conference in Pennsylvania, referring to the electromagnetic system.

The memo includes several other directives aimed at improving submarine maintenance and repair and driving foreign investment into the U.S. shipbuilding sector as the Navy tries to increase the size of its fleet.

The order marks Trump’s latest foray into the design and development of military programs. He inserted himself into negotiations for the Air Force One and the F-35 jet fighter programs, directed design changes to the Constellation-class frigate and championed the creation of Trump-class battleships.

“This decision will result in carriers that are enabled by battle-tested steam and hydraulic systems that are more resilient and robust than the present, more exquisite, follow-on systems,” the White House said in a statement. “It will also reactivate portions of the maritime industrial base that are easier to scale.”

The nuclear-powered USS Gerald R. Ford, the first ship in the class that cost more than $13 billion, experienced numerous issues during its development and construction, most notably with the catapults, arresting gear and elevators inside the ship that carry munitions to the flight deck.

In February, the Navy touted the success of the Ford’s new electromagnetic catapults and advanced arresting gear, saying they allowed the carrier to launch and recover aircraft at a higher rate than its predecessor Nimitz-class ships. Earlier this year it completed a historic 11-month deployment that included operations against Venezuela and supporting the war in Iran.

The USS George H.W. Bush, which entered the Navy’s fleet in 2009, was the last aircraft carrier built with steam catapults. Replacing the electromagnetic catapults with steam will be a complex endeavor that will likely cost billions of dollars, according to Bryan Clark, a naval expert with the Hudson Institute, a Washington think tank.

Internally, the Ford class is much different from the Nimitz. Sections that housed the infrastructure for steam have been reworked or simply don’t exist. Steam on the older Nimitz ships powers not only the aircraft catapults but also heating and evaporators that produce freshwater and galley equipment, such as kettles. Piping runs throughout the ship, which creates numerous points of failure.

“Electric is more reliable,” Clark said. “If I can turn these components to be electric instead of steam, it eliminates all the steam related mechanical parts.”

The maintenance on the electrical systems is cheaper, he added. There are 500 fewer sailors on the Ford, in part because fewer technicians are needed to work on the ship’s existing steam equipment.

Clark said early data from the Navy shows that the Ford costs about $100 million less a year to operate compared with a Nimitz-class ship.

“I’ve launched off the front of aircraft carriers hundreds of times, have a master’s degree in aeronautical engineering, and am a test pilot, and even I wouldn’t suggest to the Navy how to engineer specific systems on its ships,” said Democratic Sen. Mark Kelly of Arizona.

As of March, nearly 37,000 aircraft had been launched by Ford’s four electromagnetic catapults, according to Navy data.

General Atomics, the company that builds the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System and Advanced Arresting Gear for the Ford class, said the decision to revert to steam “warrants careful reconsideration.” The company was awarded a contract to build the catapults and arresting gear for the Doris Miller in 2023. Its work is nearly 50% complete and “changing course now would introduce significant cost, schedule, and integration risks,” the company said in a statement.

“The decision will have broader implications for carrier readiness, national security, and U.S. technological superiority, potentially creating opportunities for adversaries to close the capability gap,” the company said. “It also comes at a time when strengthening the U.S. supplier industrial base is a national priority, making workforce stability, production capacity, and the ability to sustain critical technologies more important than ever.”

HII, which makes the Ford class, said it would “work closely with the Navy to implement any potential changes to ships under construction.”

The Doris Miller isn’t expected to enter the fleet until 2034, but the Navy plans to lay its keel this year, according to a Navy document.

China is using electromagnetic catapults in its newest aircraft carriers, and France plans to use the system on the Ford in its new carrier.

The memo directs the Pentagon to pursue more direct investments in U.S. shipbuilding. Under the guidelines, a foreign shipbuilder could build up to two ships overseas while at the same time training American workers and investing in U.S. shipyards.

A similar model has been used by the U.S. Coast Guard to build new icebreakers at Finland’s Rauma Marine Constructions. Additional ships will be built in Louisiana by Bollinger Shipyards. Three ships are already under construction, and more than $1 billion has been invested in American shipyards.

The memorandum also calls for a new public shipyard “to supercharge submarine repair and restore the American industrial base.” It would be the first new Navy shipyard opened in 83 years, the White House said. It also called for creating a “Component Repair Center,” essentially a submarine spare parts warehouse, that could quickly ship replacements to subs and repair broken parts.

The Navy has been trying to boost submarine production for years with the goal of building two Virginia-class and one Columbia-class sub each year. It recently awarded General Dynamics Electric Boat and HII Newport News Shipbuilding a $76.6 billion deal for nine Virginia-class and five Columbia-class submarines that will be delivered by 2038.

[David Newton]

This stupidity can easily be dealt with.

Proceed with redesign work but slow walk it so that the ship plans will mysteriously take until at least 16th January 2029 to be ready. Then once we're rid of Trump from power lobby his successor to reverse course.

[warshipadmin]

I think you'll find that 2.5 years is a reasonable estimate for the redesign, even though it is known tech.

[Pdf27]

He's turning into a stereotypical technologically challenged and slightly senile old guy. Where's DOGE when you need it?

[Pdf27]

More seriously:

1. Would such a major and expensive change require congressional approval? That's improbable now and vanishingly unlikely after November.
2. The redesign cycle being instructed is what killed the Constellation class - and I'd be very pleasantly surprised if you can get the design signed off in 2.5 years. There are all sorts of potential underlying nasties in for instance the reactor control system and how it deals with transient loads that will probably need recertification and add years and $$$$$ by themselves.

[MikeKozlowski]

More seriously:

1. Would such a major and expensive change require congressional approval? That's improbable now and vanishingly unlikely after November.
2. The redesign cycle being instructed is what killed the Constellation class - and I'd be very pleasantly surprised if you can get the design signed off in 2.5 years. There are all sorts of potential underlying nasties in for instance the reactor control system and how it deals with transient loads that will probably need recertification and add years and $$$$$ by themselves.

...I'm going to stick my neck out a bit and say this is never going to happen. It will take literally YEARS to refit Ford and Kennedy, Enterprise and Miller will need massive redesign, and the carriers after that will be almost as bad. I'm not at all sure this can be done - or appropriated - by exorder; I don't think I exaggerate when I say the final cost would probably be equal to at least one more CVN. And Lord knows we don't need to delay the new carriers any more than they already are. We need Ford and Kennedy on the line, and Enterprise and Miller at something even vaguely resembling on time. This won't do that.

Mike

[Nightwatch2]

More seriously:

1. Would such a major and expensive change require congressional approval? That's improbable now and vanishingly unlikely after November.
2. The redesign cycle being instructed is what killed the Constellation class - and I'd be very pleasantly surprised if you can get the design signed off in 2.5 years. There are all sorts of potential underlying nasties in for instance the reactor control system and how it deals with transient loads that will probably need recertification and add years and $$$$$ by themselves.

...I'm going to stick my neck out a bit and say this is never going to happen. It will take literally YEARS to refit Ford and Kennedy, Enterprise and Miller will need massive redesign, and the carriers after that will be almost as bad. I'm not at all sure this can be done - or appropriated - by exorder; I don't think I exaggerate when I say the final cost would probably be equal to at least one more CVN. And Lord knows we don't need to delay the new carriers any more than they already are. We need Ford and Kennedy on the line, and Enterprise and Miller at something even vaguely resembling on time. This won't do that.

Mike

Ford, Kennedy and Enterprise will not be retrofitted according to the article above.

The massive redesign will take years and billion$.

It will never happen.

Congress does need to pass the legislation to fund this.

My only concern about the shift to electric systems is the electronic signature while in EMCON. So far as effective, efficiency and operational utility these systems have been proven in combat operations.

Someone needs to take the crayons away from the President and he needs to focus on his broader policy agenda rather than military design engineering. This is not helpful!

[brovane]

Someone needs to take the crayons away from the President and he needs to focus on his broader policy agenda rather than military design engineering. This is not helpful!

That is the part that leaves me scratching my head. So much "odd" things have been happening over the last several months he has posted. Well more odd than normal from the on and off again deals with Iran, to Greenland, and now this. He really needs to be focused on the mid-terms and Iran. Not what type of catapult system the US Navy uses.

[kdahm]

Someone needs to take the crayons away from the President and he needs to focus on his broader policy agenda rather than military design engineering. This is not helpful!

That is the part that leaves me scratching my head. So much "odd" things have been happening over the last several months he has posted. Well more odd than normal from the on and off again deals with Iran, to Greenland, and now this. He really needs to be focused on the mid-terms and Iran. Not what type of catapult system the US Navy uses.

On one hand, this is asinine and a total waste of any President's time. On the other hand, the more time he spends on crap like this that won't go anywhere, the less time he has for doing crazy stuff like the vaccine overhaul, poking at Greenland, or trying to fire a Fed board member.

On the gripping hand, it's a sign that there's no one in the Administration that can tell Trump that he's full of it and to reconsider.

[brovane]

Someone needs to take the crayons away from the President and he needs to focus on his broader policy agenda rather than military design engineering. This is not helpful!

That is the part that leaves me scratching my head. So much "odd" things have been happening over the last several months he has posted. Well more odd than normal from the on and off again deals with Iran, to Greenland, and now this. He really needs to be focused on the mid-terms and Iran. Not what type of catapult system the US Navy uses.

On one hand, this is asinine and a total waste of any President's time. On the other hand, the more time he spends on crap like this that won't go anywhere, the less time he has for doing crazy stuff like the vaccine overhaul, poking at Greenland, or trying to fire a Fed board member.

On the gripping hand, it's a sign that there's no one in the Administration that can tell Trump that he's full of it and to reconsider.

I think Trump got rid of anyone that would tell him he is full of it. The only people left are the ones that tell him what he wants to hear. This is a very dangerous situation for the US.

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

So, will he now replace departing press secretary with an AI/LLM ??
And, yes, which one ??

[Straker]

Does rather knacker the Marine Nationale if new EMALS sets aren't being produced anymore, they were looking at them for the next generation carrier.

It does seem like a potentially ill thought out move. The only question in my head is whether it is a second order consequence of something like re-evaluating how much EM emissions the newer carriers give out when launching and whether that is more potentially monitorable when the carrier is otherwise in an EMCOM state than predicted. Unlikely but it has now peaked my curiosity.

[Paul Nuttall]

Any truth to the claim he also doesn't like the positioning of the island?

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

Next, he'll be demanding a figure-head and bronze ram...

[Paul Nuttall]

Next, he'll be demanding a figure-head and bronze ram...

Nah, it would be gold....

[Nightwatch2]

Does rather knacker the Marine Nationale if new EMALS sets aren't being produced anymore, they were looking at them for the next generation carrier.

It does seem like a potentially ill thought out move. The only question in my head is whether it is a second order consequence of something like re-evaluating how much EM emissions the newer carriers give out when launching and whether that is more potentially monitorable when the carrier is otherwise in an EMCOM state than predicted. Unlikely but it has now peaked my curiosity.

funny you should ask that. I raised this issue several years ago and had a discussion with a RADM in the program office. Never got a straight answer on that (not surprising given the probable classified answer)

the EMCON issue has been my only reservation about these systems.

it is interesting that the same guy pushing for the electro rail gun on "his" battleships wants to cancel the EMALS.

maybe we'll get the answer some day....

[Micael]

Does rather knacker the Marine Nationale if new EMALS sets aren't being produced anymore, they were looking at them for the next generation carrier.

It does seem like a potentially ill thought out move. The only question in my head is whether it is a second order consequence of something like re-evaluating how much EM emissions the newer carriers give out when launching and whether that is more potentially monitorable when the carrier is otherwise in an EMCOM state than predicted. Unlikely but it has now peaked my curiosity.

Translated from Le Monde:

American catapults: "No risk" identified for the future French aircraft carrier "France-Libre", according to the Ministry of the Armed Forces
Donald Trump's decision to abandon electromagnetic catapults is supposed to take effect for an aircraft carrier due to be delivered in 2034. However, the three other earlier Ford-class ships are or will be equipped with modern catapults, which should be enough to guarantee the industry, the French ministry believes.

I had heard some noise earlier that the French were trying to work out a backup plan though. As I recall it centered around designing their own variant using Japanese components and being assembled in France. That’s probably a last ditch effort though since it would likely come with substantial technical risk.

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

"it is interesting that the same guy pushing for the electro rail gun on "his" battleships wants to cancel the EMALS."

Blaart ! Blaart !! Blaart !!! 'Joined-Up Thinking Failure Alert !!'

[warshipadmin]

The steam catapults are a lot bigger than the EMALS and need a steam buffer, and a lot of pipework. So retrofitting steam catapults is essentially a complete redesign between the flight deck and the keel. So 10 years. Fun factoid each launch uses the same energy as 4 gallons of diesel. The steam is desalinated water so you vastly increase the water usage. The catapults are only 5% efficient.

[Demon Lord Razgriz]

Only way this works is just cancelling the Fords, and bring back the Nimitz. And that if the talk about the positioning of the island turns out to be false.