A-6F/G
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Matt Wiser
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A-6F/G
While we've talked about the A-6 in other threads, and with the likelihood that low rate production of the F would continue at Grumman thanks to the NY House and Senate Delegation, wartime needs would entail something similar to the A-6G that was proposed as an alternative to the F. These can replace A-6F attrition. And if the Navy and Marines decide that more squadrons are needed, the Es in AMARC are available for conversion.
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The difference between diplomacy and war is this: Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so elegantly that they pack for the trip.
War is bringing hell down on that someone.
War is bringing hell down on that someone.
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clancyphile
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Re: A-6F/G
Sorry, Guru...
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jemhouston
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Re: A-6F/G
Grumman would probably ramp up to full wartime production of the A-6F…
“For a brick, he flew pretty good!” Sgt. Major A.J. Johnson, Halo 2
To err is Human; to forgive is not SAC policy.
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To err is Human; to forgive is not SAC policy.
“This is Raven 2-5. This is my sandbox. You will not drop, acknowledge.” David Flanagan, former Raven FAC
Re: A-6F/G
Apologies to Matt for the delayed reply.
A-6F New Builds: Personally, I think new build have been finished for a couple of years by TLWverse 2005. I guess it all depends on the annual build rate. And as I discussed in the AMARC thread, the small (expensive) annual buys in @ were what got Grumman and the Navy in trouble with OSD and Congress. As of the current time in TLWverse, Northrup-Grumman is ramping up F-25 production for the Navy and the Air Force in Long Island.
Grumman's problem in @ was that they had one customer and their products either expensive and not exactly export friendly (F-14) or single-role in a multi-role budget world (A-6). Now if anyone can conjure up who else in TLWverse might want to buy a reasonable quantity of new-build single-role medium bombers and thereby extend A-6F production, I'm all ears.
The problem is that just about anyone in TLWverse who could get cleared to buy new-build F-14s during the 1990s, will have bought F-15E derivatives or are hopping to get cleared for F-22s . . . eventually. And anyone who NG wants to hawk new-build A-6Fs to that wants to drop a lot of iron bombs at a great distance will either buy multi-role F-15E derivatives, or will go shopping at Uncle Sam's Used Warbirds of Tuscon for A-6Es.
Don't get me wrong, I like both airplanes. But absent USAFesque production numbers, or an export book to keep the line going a la the F-15, F-16, and F/A-18, production of new-build can't last forever. Not when both are in line to be replaced by a single air frame that is already in production at the same factory.
A-6E => A-6G CILOP: The NADEPS should be able to handle the work. But as Matt brought up in an email, doing the work inland and out of SLCM range has an appeal to it. Boeing Military Aircraft in Wichita is an option Matt mentioned. Up to this point in TLWverse, they'd be focused on militarizing 737s and 767s out of Washington into P-8s and KC-45 respectively.
I'd add Air Force Plant 3 in Tulsa, OK as another possibility. In @ Rockwell and McDonnell-Douglas had operations there, and there is lots of floor space. Fun Fact - AFP-3 is where A-12 Avenger II assembly was supposed to occur.
My only real sticking point is how fast CILOPS can get going. Ramping up all the A-6F bits and bobs that turn an A-6E into an A-6F isn't going to happen overnight, even if the A-6F is still in low-rate production.
A-6F New Builds: Personally, I think new build have been finished for a couple of years by TLWverse 2005. I guess it all depends on the annual build rate. And as I discussed in the AMARC thread, the small (expensive) annual buys in @ were what got Grumman and the Navy in trouble with OSD and Congress. As of the current time in TLWverse, Northrup-Grumman is ramping up F-25 production for the Navy and the Air Force in Long Island.
Grumman's problem in @ was that they had one customer and their products either expensive and not exactly export friendly (F-14) or single-role in a multi-role budget world (A-6). Now if anyone can conjure up who else in TLWverse might want to buy a reasonable quantity of new-build single-role medium bombers and thereby extend A-6F production, I'm all ears.
The problem is that just about anyone in TLWverse who could get cleared to buy new-build F-14s during the 1990s, will have bought F-15E derivatives or are hopping to get cleared for F-22s . . . eventually. And anyone who NG wants to hawk new-build A-6Fs to that wants to drop a lot of iron bombs at a great distance will either buy multi-role F-15E derivatives, or will go shopping at Uncle Sam's Used Warbirds of Tuscon for A-6Es.
Don't get me wrong, I like both airplanes. But absent USAFesque production numbers, or an export book to keep the line going a la the F-15, F-16, and F/A-18, production of new-build can't last forever. Not when both are in line to be replaced by a single air frame that is already in production at the same factory.
A-6E => A-6G CILOP: The NADEPS should be able to handle the work. But as Matt brought up in an email, doing the work inland and out of SLCM range has an appeal to it. Boeing Military Aircraft in Wichita is an option Matt mentioned. Up to this point in TLWverse, they'd be focused on militarizing 737s and 767s out of Washington into P-8s and KC-45 respectively.
I'd add Air Force Plant 3 in Tulsa, OK as another possibility. In @ Rockwell and McDonnell-Douglas had operations there, and there is lots of floor space. Fun Fact - AFP-3 is where A-12 Avenger II assembly was supposed to occur.
My only real sticking point is how fast CILOPS can get going. Ramping up all the A-6F bits and bobs that turn an A-6E into an A-6F isn't going to happen overnight, even if the A-6F is still in low-rate production.
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Matt Wiser
- Posts: 1224
- Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:48 am
- Location: Auberry, CA
Re: A-6F/G
Hmm.... Even allowing for politics (and the possibility that Hillary Clinton is now the Junior Senator from NY), one could argue that Grumman is winding down A-6F production, filling in the last peacetime orders for attrition replacement as Calverton is getting set for full rate F-25 (Or F/A-25 as the Navy priority is the deep-strike mission that the A-6 performs) output.
It's very likely that both Boeing-Wichita (which handled the A-6E SWIP program OTL) and AFP-3 at Tulsa get handed A-6G CILOP work. Even if Grumman's CEO is having a lot of knashing of Teeth... The A-6 specialists from Alameda and Norfolk go to Wichita and Tulsa, respectively to get set up.
It's very likely that both Boeing-Wichita (which handled the A-6E SWIP program OTL) and AFP-3 at Tulsa get handed A-6G CILOP work. Even if Grumman's CEO is having a lot of knashing of Teeth... The A-6 specialists from Alameda and Norfolk go to Wichita and Tulsa, respectively to get set up.
The difference between diplomacy and war is this: Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so elegantly that they pack for the trip.
War is bringing hell down on that someone.
War is bringing hell down on that someone.