History, Politics And Current Affairs

Posted: **Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:53 pm**

Karma Baby

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2022/12/01 ... gy-n514785

Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy
JAZZ SHAW 3:31 PM on December 01, 2022

AP Photo/Rich Pedroncelli
The European Union jumped on the electric vehicle craze well ahead of other parts of the world, particularly after the Paris climate accord. But in typical socialist fashion, they weren’t content with simply encouraging people to switch to EVs. Many European countries almost immediately started making plans to ban gas-powered cars and trucks and make EVs mandatory. Lots of Europeans wanted to get out ahead of the curve and began snapping the newer models up. But then came the start of the war in Ukraine, cutting energy supplies just as Europe was trying to wean itself off of fossil fuels. Now, in a rather embarrassing reversal, Switzerland is considering legislation that would ban people from driving electric vehicles except in urgent conditions over the winter because there simply might not be enough juice on the grid to recharge them. (From Der Spiegel. Original is in German but Google Translate can convert it for you.)

Switzerland could be the first country to impose driving bans on e-cars in an emergency to ensure energy security. Several media report this unanimously and refer to a draft regulation on restrictions and bans on the use of electrical energy. Specifically, the paper says: “The private use of electric cars is only permitted for absolutely necessary journeys (e.g. professional practice, shopping, visiting the doctor, attending religious events, attending court appointments).” A stricter speed limit is also planned highways.

Most of the electricity in Switzerland comes from hydropower. However, the country also imports electricity from Germany and France . If there are bottlenecks there, electricity could also become scarce in Switzerland. Energy security in Europe is considered endangered because of the Russian war of aggression against Ukraine .
Switzerland has various “escalation levels” for its energy crisis. The ban on recharging electric vehicles would only go into effect when they reach level 3 according to the draft copy of the legislation that reporters obtained. Prior to that, the government would impose limits on how hot the water can be in washing machines (yes… seriously) and they would ban the use of leaf blowers and seat heaters in chair lifts. Bizarrely, they will also limit videos from streaming services to only be shown in SD resolution. (Huh?)

So much the same as we saw in California earlier this year, the government pushed everyone to switch over to electric vehicles to save the planet. But now they’re warning them that they won’t be able to recharge their vehicles except for “urgent travel requirements.” The crazy part of all of this is that the major energy corporations have been warning everyone about this for several years. The power grid doesn’t produce endless electricity by magic. You have to produce enough energy to power it or it fails. But nobody wanted to listen.

To put this story in context, consider the fact that in June of this year, the EU proposed a ban on new gas-powered cars by 2035

From 2035, newly registered cars and light goods vehicles will no longer be allowed to emit greenhouse gases. The decision was approved on June 29 by the 27-member group. The ban on internal combustion engines voted by the European Parliament – which the EU member States still have to approve – effectively marks the end of petrol- and diesel-powered vehicles, as well as hybrids, which are currently experiencing a boom. In future, only new electric or hydrogen-powered models will be able to be sold.

2035 is only a little more than a decade away. If this proposal passes, Europe won’t even allow hybrids to be sold. Only fully electric vehicles or hydrogen-powered ones. Good luck finding a hydrogen recharging station, by the way. And unless they get their energy grid back under control, there’s no guarantee you’ll be able to drive your car anywhere.

I was under the impression that Europe was a collection of first-world countries. Perhaps I was mistaken.

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:46 pm**

Getting caught short due to supply challenges and having to ration electricity may be embarrassing in this situation, and I agree on the stupidity of near term ICE bans for multiple reasons. And sure, I get irritated by the "let them eat cake" attitude of so many rabid EV fans that don't understand why everyone doesn't just go out and drop $60k plus on an EV right now. But I also just don't understand the triumphalism that goes beyond just "dumb politicians!" and the vehement opposition to EVs like they're somehow inherently evil, and the "see, The Grid can't handle 100% EV right now so therefore it'll never ever work". It's like they have a personal stake in squashing EVs.

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:21 pm**

I suspect they may have a stake in the game since they're tired of stupid stuff like forcing everyone to go EV without doing the groundwork first.

Personally, I'm not a fan of EVs, I always thought Plugin Hybrids were the way to go. I leave in an apartment in Houston. I'm not sure there is a complex at my price point that has chargers or garages with power. If I need to evacuate from a hurricane, the rule of thumb is you won't get a hotel room south of Dallas or east of San Antinio. It's easier and faster to refuel your gas tank than it is to charge your EV. Assuming they don't run out of gas on the route.

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:06 pm**

jemhouston wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:21 pmI suspect they may have a stake in the game since they're tired of stupid stuff like forcing everyone to go EV without doing the groundwork first.

They aren't - the infrastructure is nearly there now, and we're ~15 years away from a ban. Looking at what has happened in Norway (ICE cars are almost extinct) based on a mix of tax changes and the technology finally being there. The bans are fundamentally about reassuring the market (car makers, fast charger companies, etc.) that if they invest there will be a market for them.

jemhouston wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:21 pmPersonally, I'm not a fan of EVs, I always thought Plugin Hybrids were the way to go.

Not convinced by them - you end up carrying around nearly 2 powertrains with you, which adds a lot of weight and cost. Might be worthwhile with wireless charging, but in practice few people seem to actually plug them in given the very limited range so they end up being a heavy ICE car in the end.

jemhouston wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:21 pmI leave in an apartment in Houston. I'm not sure there is a complex at my price point that has chargers or garages with power. If I need to evacuate from a hurricane, the rule of thumb is you won't get a hotel room south of Dallas or east of San Antinio. It's easier and faster to refuel your gas tank than it is to charge your EV. Assuming they don't run out of gas on the route.

Most EVs will do at least 250 miles on a charge now, and installing chargers isn't all that hard. I'm guessing you already have electricity in your apartment complex, so if you've got allocated parking then fitting the chargers isn't that hard. Figure maybe $500 per parking space to fit a standard overnight charger, and given that electricity is typically quite a bit cheaper than gasoline as a source of motive power it shouldn't be unaffordable.

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:32 pm**

GTAE wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:46 pm Getting caught short due to supply challenges and having to ration electricity may be embarrassing in this situation, and I agree on the stupidity of near term ICE bans for multiple reasons. And sure, I get irritated by the "let them eat cake" attitude of so many rabid EV fans that don't understand why everyone doesn't just go out and drop $60k plus on an EV right now. But I also just don't understand the triumphalism that goes beyond just "dumb politicians!" and the vehement opposition to EVs like they're somehow inherently evil, and the "see, The Grid can't handle 100% EV right now so therefore it'll never ever work". It's like they have a personal stake in squashing EVs.

Because lots of the environmental people have been jerks to people who lost their livelihoods, and so it’s payback time.

It’s like people being actively happy at the big tech layoffs.

The discourse in the United States on a lot of this stuff has become incredibly toxic, and increasingly class based. It’s pretty much sucked all the goodwill and empathy out of the conversation, especially given the ongoing work from home vs work on site class issues.

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:34 pm**

Norway is an edge case - most electricity is from hydro and they have a huge sovereign fund from fossil fuel sales and so can afford luxury beliefs.

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:40 pm**

warshipadmin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:34 pm Norway is an edge case - most electricity is from hydro and they have a huge sovereign fund from fossil fuel sales.

And where does the bulk of the population live/work/commute to.

EVs are great for certain situations and not for others. The problem is that (at least in the US) they’re being marketed and regulated as a panacea with minimal consideration for those whom they do not fit yet - or (here in CA) electrical grid generation capacity.

The biggest issue is probably that many people promoting them are those who push other environmental and densification issues that are now associated with (rightly or wrongly) with reducing quality of life for certain groups of people. So EVs get tarred with the same brush.

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:38 pm**

yup monkey see monkey do approach these "well meaning" types have when they see the porky "everything included, pass it to see whats in it" crap democrats absolutely love, and keep getting away with shoving on everyone.

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:40 am**

A critical mass of people really do think being an ass changes minds.

It doesn’t.

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:58 am**

warshipadmin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:34 pmNorway is an edge case - most electricity is from hydro and they have a huge sovereign fund from fossil fuel sales and so can afford luxury beliefs.

The sovereign wealth fund doesn't make a big difference here, although the very high GDP/capita ($20,000 higher than that of the USA) does make a difference - they're better able to buy new cars for instance.
I wouldn't characterise it as a luxury belief however - the data from fleet managers in the UK suggests that total cost of ownership for electric cars is significantly lower despite the higher purchase price: the reduced mechanical complexity means that maintenance and depreciation costs are much lower, and fuel costs are a lot less.

Johnnie Lyle wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:40 pmAnd where does the bulk of the population live/work/commute to.

Population density map:

Most people tend to work within a modest distance of where they live - time spent commuting is essentially unpaid overtime, with little benefit. The US is a bit of an outlier in how far people are willing to commute, and the California housing market in particular screws it up further.
Further map for the region which probably illustrates it a bit better - huge suburbs/exurbs aren't really a thing in that part of the world.

Johnnie Lyle wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:40 pmEVs are great for certain situations and not for others. The problem is that (at least in the US) they’re being marketed and regulated as a panacea with minimal consideration for those whom they do not fit yet - or (here in CA) electrical grid generation capacity.

Marketing is hardly a surprise - companies with electric cars to sell are hardly going to say bad things about them. And regulation to date has always been aimed at some years in the future, so it's problematic to object to the regulations based on infrastructure as it is now.

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:03 am**

Kind of a click bait headline. The Swiss were looking at restrictions of EV use in a worst case scenario. Sort of the EV equivalent to fuel rationing.

At the moment from a personal perspective, what puts me off buying an EV as my next car is that Scotland’s charger network is somewhat unreliable and slow. In a case of unintended consequences, the free to use Transport Scotland chargers, meant to encourage EV use, have discouraged installation of better, faster chargers. I’ve even seen Tesla drivers using the slow chargers instead of the fast Tesla ones.

The issues are fixable, however.

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:24 am**

I've never bought a new car, so it would be a while before I bought one. However, the place I work is talking about bringing in a salary sacrifice scheme for which the tax benefits are very attractive indeed (for me about a 50% reduction in open-market lease rates, which includes the cost of insurance and maintenance). That puts the total running costs pretty close to my current car, which is of course paid for out of post-tax income. The tax break isn't likely to last all that long, but if they do launch it I'll probably go for it.

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:50 am**

Bernard Woolley wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:03 am Kind of a click bait headline. The Swiss were looking at restrictions of EV use in a worst case scenario. Sort of the EV equivalent to fuel rationing.

At the moment from a personal perspective, what puts me off buying an EV as my next car is that Scotland’s charger network is somewhat unreliable and slow. In a case of unintended consequences, the free to use Transport Scotland chargers, meant to encourage EV use, have discouraged installation of better, faster chargers. I’ve even seen Tesla drivers using the slow chargers instead of the fast Tesla ones.

The issues are fixable, however.

Socialism gone wrong?!! So unlike an SNP scheme!

There's nothing wrong with government chargers in places that otherwise wouldn't get any. I'll bet these are in places like motorway services however.

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:05 pm**

They’ve invested in a private company, which does seem to have a fair few low power chargers (22kW) in remoter parts of Scotland.

https://chargeplacescotland.org/

Posted: **Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:52 pm**

Pdf27 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:05 pm They’ve invested in a private company, which does seem to have a fair few low power chargers (22kW) in remoter parts of Scotland.

https://chargeplacescotland.org/

I would love to see the full decision analysis and tendering work carried out for this scheme… I’ve been looking at the quality of the public procurement work carried out in Scotland, and to say that it’s lacking… a bit thin… would be putting it mildly.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:56 pm**

Craiglxviii wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:52 pm
Pdf27 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:05 pm They’ve invested in a private company, which does seem to have a fair few low power chargers (22kW) in remoter parts of Scotland.

https://chargeplacescotland.org/
I would love to see the full decision analysis and tendering work carried out for this scheme…

1. Do you support independence?
2. Do you support the SNP

Note: To have any chance of getting the contract the answer to both must be YES.

History, Politics And Current Affairs

Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy

Re: Swiss look to ban use of electric cars over the winter to save energy