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Been thinking recently that I'm begining to wonder why Star Fleet bother with the whole letter after a registery thing if a new ship shares the name with one that was destroyed, or decomissioned. I'm reminded that in the real world the Royal Navy had two Ice Patrol Ships with the name Endurance. They both shared the pennant number A171. No A was added to ex-MV Polar Circle's pennant number when she became the new Endurance.
What's that I hear you say? What happens if an old ship is preserved while there is another with the same name in commission? Like Enterprise A and her sucessors? Well, there is RW precedent for that too. In not too long there were be an RN Type 26 frigate called HMS Belfast. The preserved light cruiser is now HMS Belfast (1938) to avoid confusion. Plus it's not as if the Ford class USS Enterprise is CVN-65A, or CV-6B.
With the commissioning of the Excelsior refit class Enterprise, the preserved Constitution-class refit could easily have been designated USS Enterprise (2286).
I've also begun to think that maybe the prefix for Federation star ships should really be something like FSS, rather than USS. I also sort of wish that star ship names were a little less Amero-centric. Yes, there are some named after warships from other countries, but we don't see them all that often. But, that's just me wishing to see a few more iconic British names!
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:05 pm
by Micael
Anyone else catch the ”Starbuck” namedrop?
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:49 pm
by James1978
Nice cameo in the latest episode, that turns out to be yet another Changeling.
Either the extent of Federation territory moved, or Titan was hiding outside Federation Space for part of the episode.
And it turns out some arm of the Federation did some very un-Federation things during the Dominion War. We're talking some real Terran Empire stuff.
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:43 pm
by Poohbah
Bernard Woolley wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:53 pm
Been thinking recently that I'm begining to wonder why Star Fleet bother with the whole letter after a registery thing if a new ship shares the name with one that was destroyed, or decomissioned. I'm reminded that in the real world the Royal Navy had two Ice Patrol Ships with the name Endurance. They both shared the pennant number A171. No A was added to ex-MV Polar Circle's pennant number when she became the new Endurance.
What's that I hear you say? What happens if an old ship is preserved while there is another with the same name in commission? Like Enterprise A and her sucessors? Well, there is RW precedent for that too. In not too long there were be an RN Type 26 frigate called HMS Belfast. The preserved light cruiser is now HMS Belfast (1938) to avoid confusion. Plus it's not as if the Ford class USS Enterprise is CVN-65A, or CV-6B.
With the commissioning of the Excelsior refit class Enterprise, the preserved Constitution-class refit could easily have been designated USS Enterprise (2286).
I've also begun to think that maybe the prefix for Federation star ships should really be something like FSS, rather than USS. I also sort of wish that star ship names were a little less Amero-centric. Yes, there are some named after warships from other countries, but we don't see them all that often. But, that's just me wishing to see a few more iconic British names!
The idea was that certain ships in Starfleet are . . . immortal, if you will. They want to preserve the pennant number while retaining the lineage.
I suspect that USS is a nod to the lineage of Starfleet in the United Earth Space Probe Agency. I did write a short fiction about 30 years ago where a Starfleet officer casually mentions that the decision to put the solar system defense mission under UESPA and to decommission the Earth Defense Force was a crucial moment in the development of Starfleet's ethos.
I do agree that the naming needs to be a tad less Amero-centric. The Federation-class dreadnoughts should've been the Dreadnought class, with subsequent ships including USS Bellerophon and USS Nassau, and a "Fast Dreadnought" squadron with names like Tiger and Lion.
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:54 pm
by Johnnie Lyle
USS BELLEROPHON was lost trying to rescue SARATOGA at Wolf 359.
We do have some famous RN names in past histories of TNG characters. Riker was XO in HOOD, Pulaski was surgeon in REPULSE, LaForge was a JO on VICTORY, and Ro Laren was on the WELLINGTON.
DEFIANT is named for a Royal Navy ship of the line, though they probably meant DEFIANCE. So was SUTHERLAND, famous command of Admiral Hornblower.
We also had an EXETER, ENDEAVOR, EAGLE and HERMES, among others.
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:01 am
by James1978
Amero-centric?
A quick look found the following, with some duplication from Johnnie's list:
Bellerophon, Berlin, Cairo, Centaur, Defiant, Eagle, Exeter, Excalibur, Fearless, Gagarin, Hermes, Honshu, Hood, Intrepid, Kongo, Korolev, Kyushu, Majestic, Melbourne, Okinawa, Potemkin, Repulse, Shenzhou, Sovereign, Soyuz, Valiant, Vancouver, Wellington, Victory, Voyager, Yamato.
Not exactly heralded US Navy names . . . though some are multi-national.
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:48 pm
by Bernard Woolley
The writers have gotten better since TOS at including a wider range of historical ship names. I just want to see an Ark Royal!
The letter after the registry thing is a hill I will die on!
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:17 pm
by Poohbah
Bernard Woolley wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:48 pm
The writers have gotten better since TOS at including a wider range of historical ship names. I just want to see an Ark Royal!
The letter after the registry thing is a hill I will die on!
The letter after the registry thing DID set up Scotty's best line ever.
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:12 pm
by MikeKozlowski
James1978 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:01 am
Amero-centric?
A quick look found the following, with some duplication from Johnnie's list:
Bellerophon, Berlin, Cairo, Centaur, Defiant, Eagle, Exeter, Excalibur, Fearless, Gagarin, Hermes, Honshu, Hood, Intrepid, Kongo, Korolev, Kyushu, Majestic, Melbourne, Okinawa, Potemkin, Repulse, Shenzhou, Sovereign, Soyuz, Valiant, Vancouver, Wellington, Victory, Voyager, Yamato.
Not exactly heralded US Navy names . . . though some are multi-national.
...Not Americentric, but definitely Terran-centric.
Even in the late TOS era, StarFleet was still about 80% Terran, and it looks like that's improved considerably by ST:P, but by now we really should have started to see some other names - at least Vulcan, Andorian, Tellarite, and other UFP founders.
Mike
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:01 pm
by James1978
If you go digging around Memory Alpha, there are a fair number of ships with Vulcan names.
To give ST:D fair credit, they have gotten better about non-Terran ships names. Off the top of my head, there has been a USS Shran and a USS Nog.
According to Memory Alpha, some of the background ships in ST:P are named for Andorians and Tellarites.
Speaking of Nog, it's a damn shame Aron Eisenberg passed away - I'd love to have seen Captain Nog.
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:45 pm
by James1978
So, umm, about Episode 9 . . .
I've generally been enjoying this season. Don't get me wrong, there have been a couple of things that have me raising an eyebrow, but I've mostly tried to look past those few things and just enjoyed seeing where things were going. After Episode 9, I'm not sure how much leeway I can give anymore.
No spoilers - but if/when Our Heroes save the day, there is still going to be one hell of a mess in the aftermath.
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:22 pm
by Jotun
James1978 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:45 pm
So, umm, about Episode 9 . . .
I've generally been enjoying this season. Don't get me wrong, there have been a couple of things that have me raising an eyebrow, but I've mostly tried to look past those few things and just enjoyed seeing where things were going. After Episode 9, I'm not sure how much leeway I can give anymore.
No spoilers - but if/when Our Heroes save the day, there is still going to be one hell of a mess in the aftermath.
Hopefully. It would be a wasted season otherwise.
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:47 pm
by Micael
I quite enjoyed the episode. It’s introducing a proper existential threat (that actually feels like it) to the Federation and Starfleet for the first time in a long while.
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:33 pm
by Craiglxviii
Na na na na naaaa fingers in ears can’t hear you lot, I just started watching season 3. First two episodes, I’m very impressed with.
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 2:03 am
by Bernard Woolley
Noooooooooooooo!
Spoiler!
Not Shaw! They killed Shaw! Just as I was beginning to like him!
The reappearance of the Borg is interesting. I wonder what this means for the Jurati/Queen collective? Have they been assimilated too? Does that mean we’ve lost the potential to have the Borg as allies, rather than antagonists? If Jurati/Queen Borg have not been assimilated, do they know what’s going on and what are they doing?
It was really nice to see an old friend! The appearance of Enterprise D did take me back. Also, poor old Admiral Shelby. The Borg got her in the end. Quite the rise in rank, though - 5 star admiral!
Really great to see her.
There is going to be a huge mess in the aftermath. If the person who decided to bring the Fleet together in one place is not already dead, they deserve to have their head on a pike!
Talking of the Fleet. Did anyone think it looked too small? Yes, it was big, but with Starfleet’s responsibilities, I’d have thought it would have been massive. I do wonder what is happening in the areas the Fleet is supposed to be patrolling.
If anything else, this episode reminds us of the dangers of hubris. Starfleet and the Federation were so pleased with themselves regarding gathering the Fleet for Frontier Day and developing a system that links ships together, that nothing could go wrong, that they never stopped to think about whether they should.
It was an impressive achievement. I'd happily forgive them anything that did not look quite right. After all, the saucer section was pulled off the surface of a planet and had suffered significant damage. Geordi will have had to restore the interior by scrounging components from a variety of sources. Half the bloody ship is the Sutherland after all!
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 12:55 pm
by Bernard Woolley
It fascinates me that this season shares a theme with the not particularly great final Quatermass story (linky)).
Spoiler!
Both have a theme that the young are vulnerable to being influenced and taken over by an outside influence. And that only people over a certain age can be trusted and relied on. In Quatermass it was because aliens beyond our comprehension wanted to harvist young people for some tiny element. In ST:P its a take over of Starfleet via an 'enemy within'.
In the Trek Culture video, Seán Ferrick speculates that there is "Borg Zombie apocalypse" going on down on Earth. I disagree. Why? The Fleet is targeting Space Dock. If the Borg assimilation had spread beyond the fleet, then Space Dock's under 25 year old personnel would also have been assimilated. So, why target it? I'm going to speculate that only ship transporters have been modified and that possibly a planet's atmosphere blocks Jack Crusher's signal.
On another matter, I think that the rebel Changlings hate so much and are so bent on revenge that they have not thought through the alliance with the Borg. The Borg want to assimilate everyone. EVERYONE. Every species. If they can't assimilate something they destroy it. Have the Changlings thought of who the Borg are going to come for after the have finished with the 'solids'? Them. If Changlings can't be assimilated, the Borg would seek to wipe them out. The Changelings are, IMVHO, riding the tiger at the moment.
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:02 am
by MikeKozlowski
...Just watched Ep 9.
*About five minutes in...not happy.
*About 35 minutes in...please tell me that my StarFleet is smarter than this one.
*About 40 minutes in....really not happy.
*The last five minutes....much, much happier.
Mike
Re: Star Trek: Picard - Season 3
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 7:44 pm
by Micael
I wonder if
Spoiler!
it’s going to be a showdown between the D and the F.
