History, Politics And Current Affairs

Question does Berlin Brigade and 199th Infantry Brigade had a different unit histories? But in LouieD's TAA-92 Force Allocation Berlin brigade was labled 199?

In many Official US Army docs from the 1980’s they refer to the Berlin Bde as 199th INB. I am guessing that at some point the intention was to reflag Berlin Bde as 199, just haven’t found documentation yet. IRL after Wall Fall the residual Motorized units of 9 IND at Ft. Lewis became 199 Mtz Bde (again I’m guessing that they had 199 “next in line” to be reactivated, with the fall the Wall and demise of the Berlin Bde it was the next logical choice.)

Regarding new US units . . .

We had this discussion on the last board, and sadly I did not save what I wrote.

But in short . . .
Yes, new wartime US Army formations will be Army of the United States. So no reanimating National Guard divisions for the moment.
There are a LOT of NG brigades that carry the lineage of deactivated divisions, so that complicates things.
The divisions selected were the ones immediately available, but in several cases they were active after WW2 at training formations.
I worked out the full ORBATS for most of those new formations quite some time ago.

Regarding the 11th Airborne. The three Army Reserve airborne battalions are/were a shadow airborne brigade that would have been called the 11th Airborne Brigade had they come together instead of being parceled out as regional CINC reserves. So they are penciled in as 1st Brigade, 11th Airborne Division. Astute observers will note that in @, the 11th Airborne is the US Army's newest division and is stationed in Alaska.

As to how long new divisions will take to see action. Well, I've got my view on the subject - not anytime soon.
During WW2, a US leg Infantry Division took about 16 months to form up, train, and be combat ready. I think we can all agree that a circa TLWverse 2005 heavy division is a much more complicated beast.

I'll post this excerpt from the 1990/1991 Department of the Army Historical Summary:

DAHSUM wrote:In April 1990 the Army began studying the feasibility of incorporating cadre divisions into the Total Army. The end of the Cold War permitted more time for the United States to detect and counter a resurgent Soviet or other major threat. Reconstituting units under full mobilization relies on stockpiled or produced equipment and on soldiers drafted and trained after mobilization. Estimates in 1991 indicated that it would take two or more years before new units could be formed, equipped, trained, and deployed. Planners decided that the Army needed units that could attain combat readiness more quickly than newly formed units and that would be less expensive to maintain than fully structured active or ARNG divisions.

Cadre divisions are partially manned and equipped units that are filled and trained in the event of war. In peacetime, a cadre division consists of a skeletonized division organization of about 3,000 trained officers and noncommissioned officers (NCOs). Upon mobilization, the division would be filled with an influx of equipment and drafted or recruited soldiers who would be trained by the cadre leadership and then deploy. An armored cadre division could attain combat readiness twelve to fifteen months after mobilization. TRADOC began full development of the cadre division concept in a force development concept analysis during FY 90 and 91. Army leadership expected to make implementation decisions prior to submission of the 1994-99 Defense Plan.

Most of those new divisions probably don't have anywhere close to 3,000 cadre on staff.

The only existing full time cadre unit in the TLW US Army is the 14th Armored Cavalry Regiment. My original intent was to make some of those separate brigades cadre units, but I got busy with other things.

If memory serves, Basic Training + Infantry AIT ran about 14 weeks. [NOTE: It's 22 weeks currently in @ 2023].
So an infantryman who started Basic Training on NATO M-Day won't be available to be assigned to a unit until July 21. Even if we cut that down to say 12 weeks, that's still July 7. And that's someone who'd already volunteered and been through MEPS pre-war.

It's been a while since I looked at the Selective Service website, but inductees/conscripts don't just magically show up for basic training within days of war breaking out. IIRC, Shermpotter served on his local draft board at one time, so he may be able to say more.

Now you may be thinking "but James, the British Army is training Ukrainian infantry in five weeks!". OK, but my understanding is is that is a combination basic training & basic squad infantry tactics with some anti-armor thrown in. And those troops are probably getting funneled into existing units stiffened with combat vets.

No doubt, there are peacetime things that can get cut out in wartime. But does anyone really believe that 14 weeks can be compressed into five weeks. Especially in light of the fact that the US Army expanded it to 22 weeks?

Now even when those first new troops show up in July, how many of them are hopping right on a plane to go overseas as replacements as opposed to joining a new formation?

We can probably cadre/expand some of the lower readiness National Guard formations to shave off time, but that assumes that even those units don't get sent to Europe where we know AFCENT needs infantry to push the Soviets out of all those town and villages they are dug into more than they need more tanks at the moment.

So the CINC will hopefully not see new Divisions just reinforcements and pre war units?

Louie, you've got mail.

Louie wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 10:06 pm In many Official US Army docs from the 1980’s they refer to the Berlin Bde as 199th INB. I am guessing that at some point the intention was to reflag Berlin Bde as 199, just haven’t found documentation yet. IRL after Wall Fall the residual Motorized units of 9 IND at Ft. Lewis became 199 Mtz Bde (again I’m guessing that they had 199 “next in line” to be reactivated, with the fall the Wall and demise of the Berlin Bde it was the next logical choice.)

When creating these ORBATS, sometimes just have to make an editorial decision. In this case, I left the Berlin Brigade as the Berlin Brigade.

In @, the Berlin Brigade deactivated 6 July 1994.
Interestingly, the 199th Infantry Brigade was briefly active from 16 February 1991 to 16 July 1992 at Fort Lewis, WA and was built around the former 3rd Brigade, 9th Infantry Division. The 199th then reflagged as the 2nd ACR.

Eaglenine2 wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 10:11 pm So the CINC will hopefully not see new Divisions just reinforcements and pre war units?

For the time being. The US does have uncommitted units, but after that the cupboard is bear for a while. I'll try to put together a rough NORTHCOM / US Strategic Reserve ORBAT in the next week or so.
Ask Bernard about the crazy speadsheets I have to keep track of all this.

The IRR will only go so far, and the US (and Canada and the UK) don't have a vast pool of former national servicemen / conscripts to recall to the colors.

Now as far as new flying units and planes out of AMARC, the aircraft that were in fly away condition are probably long gone by now. AMARC has the staff and facilities to get planes in shape to fly out, but most of them will be flying directly to the relevant Air Logistics Center (USAF) or Naval Aviation Depot (USN/USMC) to be gotten into fighting trim. And that takes time.

Now you may be thinking "but James, the British Army is training Ukrainian infantry in five weeks!". OK, but my understanding is is that is a combination basic training & basic squad infantry tactics with some anti-armor thrown in. And those troops are probably getting funneled into existing units stiffened with combat vets.

My understanding it is effectivley the basic infantry course shortened down with section, and from what I've seen on TV, platoon level tactics. However, I have heard from the same TV documentary that some of the British trained soldiers are joining new units intended to be used in the coming Spring Offensive. I would make an educated guess that those units have a cadre of experienced soldiers.

However, it was interesting to see just how quickly our army can turn what are mainly civillians into pretty decent soldiers in just five weeks. Also interesting to see how they identified potential junior leaders & gave them responsibility early on.