Simon,
I will post the cap-badge numbers(minus any attachments from RAMC, RAPC, ACC, etc) for each Bn and their role from 1989.
To get to the 57 Bns I have extra Gurkha Bns
Three with 48 Gurkha Inf Bde
One with 5 Abn Bde
One in Brunei
One in the ITO (IDB at Warminster with Coys at Brecon & Sandhurst, this was an IRL plan)
One available in the Arms Plot for everywhere but BAOR & N Ireland)
This is all subject to Bernard’s approval of my draft
Additionally I envisioned that the eighth Gurkha Bn (each Gurkha Regt having two Bns) was in the process, pre-war, of converting to artillery. IRL before the Malayan Emergency kicked off, the two Bns of the 7th Gurkhas were being retrained as artillery, 100 & 101 FD Regts, for 17 Gurkha Inf Div)
Also the three British Bns that are “missing” are accounted for in my draft.
After the Last War: Chapter 4
Re: After the Last War: Chapter 4
Just as a reminder, the Royal Navy and RAF also grew in TLWverse. Just keep that in mind when theorizing how much you can grow non-Gurkha infantry on top of the additional armor and artillery units in TLWverse in peacetime without conscription.
Re: After the Last War: Chapter 4
James,
Thank you! I was going to add that the cuts of the supporting Corps in Frontline First (1980’s) would also be reversed taking up additional manpower. Also the RA Regts in BAOR, each Bty was UE for eight guns, only 6 were manned on PE, I was going for them to be fully manned. So while Inf and RAC unit numbers did not go up, things like the aforementioned fourth rifle Coy, Assault Pioneer Pls, RA Regts (including additional regular FOOs), RE, RS, RLC units, etc received an uptick in PE manning.
-
Simon Darkshade
- Posts: 2140
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Re: After the Last War: Chapter 4
That's what I predicted - the seemingly immutable state of affairs whereby the Regular Army is set in stone.
The additional armour and artillery units...aren't. They are TA units, or to use its 1967-1979 title for emphasis, the Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve.
As of D+100, the Army has 22 field, 8 heavy and 8 air defence regiments in the BAOR; 2 field regiments with 5th AD in Denmark; 2 field regiments in Norway; and 1 with UKMF Mk 2. There are 26 armoured regiments equipped with MBTs.
Prewar, there were 13 regular armoured regiments and 11 TA armoured regiments, and 12 air defence (5 regular and 7 TA), 21 field (12 regular and 9 TA) and 8 heavy regiments (4 regular and 4 TA).
In 1989, there were 14 field regiments (12 regular, 2 TA), 3 heavy regiments + 1 missile regiment and 8 air defence regiments (4 regular, 4 TA ) + 6 AD batteries and 13 regular armoured regiments (4th/7th, 15th/19th, 5th DG, B&R, 3RTR, 14/20, 17/21, 1RTR, QOH, 4RTR, 2RTR, RSDG, RH)
The total TLW Regular Army increases amount to 1 air defence regiment, which was likely grouped from the independent Air Defence batteries. A reasonable interpretation wouldn't view that as a Regular Army increase, but a consolidation of existing forces.
The TA has increased markedly by 7 field regiments, 4 heavy regiments and 3 air defence regiments for the Artillery and 11 armoured regiments for the RAC. Based on approximate manpower requirements, that is 6050 for the armoured units and 6720 for the artillery, on top of ~ 12,000 for the additional 20 odd TA infantry battalions. Additional supporting units and the 20 HSF battalions will likely take the TA up from 76,661 in 1989 or even the 90,000 outlined for 1990 in DEFE 70/1844 Home Defence Reinforcements and Reserves, linked in my post here: viewtopic.php?t=361&start=140
Looking at those numbers, there isn't going to be much change out of 125,000 men in the TA, which puts it around 1956 levels.
RAF
The TLW RAF on the other hand has 25 tactical fighter squadrons at home and 11 in RAFG, plus 13 Royal Auxiliary Air Force squadrons, compared to 1989's 21 at home and 12 in RAFG. 3 squadrons over 16 years isn't breaking the bank by any stretch of the imagination.
It isn't the RAF.
RN
The Royal Navy's expansion in TLW is pretty unprecedented in peacetime, going to 3 + 2 carriers, 18 + 4 SSN, 10 + 2 cruisers, 23 + 4 destroyers, 42 frigates and 18 + 10 corvettes from 3 carriers, 16 + 2 SSN, 13 destroyers and 29 + 7 frigates.
No eyelids have been batted or even fluttered at the RN increase.
Yet if I mention the possibility of 4-6 Regular Army battalions over 16 years, you'd think I've interrupted the Coronation to give a verbal advertisement for Raid Shadow Legends.
What numbers would be necessary? Between 2400 to 3600 men.
The manpower is there, given British unemployment rates aren't going to be extremely different over 1989-2005.
Take 1997, for example, lying nicely in the middle of the 16 year period.
British Population ~58,307,320. Males 20-24 ~ 1.7 million, 25-29 2.1 million and 30-34 2.35 million. Unemployment rate was 6.9%, and total was just under 2 million.
A battalion worth of men translates to 1 in 10,500 adult men alone.
Total in HM Armed Forces is likely to be 60,000-70,000 for the RN, 100,000 for the RAF and 155,000-160,000 for the Army, plus 90,000-100,000 TA, 12,000-15,000 RAF and 32,000 RN. Round up the reserves to 150,000 and the regular forces to 320,000-330,000 and the total is 470,000-480,000.
1996/97 @ British Army recruiting was 15,522 and 1997/98 was 15,379. That is likely to be a tad higher here with greater budgets and the higher social cachet of defence and arms.
The cost isn't significant, nor are the equipment/capital equipment requirements quite as egregious as assembly lines of new cruisers or 638 Challenger 2s for the TA.
What does seem to be the issue is that 1989 is written in stone as a baseline for certain armies. For us, it is the PoD and the year everything changed; from the in-universe perspective, it was 'merely Tuesday'.
So I humbly suggest that, if the Arms Plot viewed 57 as a bare minimum, and the purse strings are opening up across the board, there might be scope for some groats to be grudgingly rolled towards the Regular Army PBI in addition to the largesse poured over the TA as if it were the Prodigal Son.
My coda to that is that, if World War Three happens, keeping Regular battalions on Home Defence or garrison missions when there is now a conscript pipeline opening up may not be the best utilisation of trained professional manpower.
The additional armour and artillery units...aren't. They are TA units, or to use its 1967-1979 title for emphasis, the Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve.
As of D+100, the Army has 22 field, 8 heavy and 8 air defence regiments in the BAOR; 2 field regiments with 5th AD in Denmark; 2 field regiments in Norway; and 1 with UKMF Mk 2. There are 26 armoured regiments equipped with MBTs.
Prewar, there were 13 regular armoured regiments and 11 TA armoured regiments, and 12 air defence (5 regular and 7 TA), 21 field (12 regular and 9 TA) and 8 heavy regiments (4 regular and 4 TA).
In 1989, there were 14 field regiments (12 regular, 2 TA), 3 heavy regiments + 1 missile regiment and 8 air defence regiments (4 regular, 4 TA ) + 6 AD batteries and 13 regular armoured regiments (4th/7th, 15th/19th, 5th DG, B&R, 3RTR, 14/20, 17/21, 1RTR, QOH, 4RTR, 2RTR, RSDG, RH)
The total TLW Regular Army increases amount to 1 air defence regiment, which was likely grouped from the independent Air Defence batteries. A reasonable interpretation wouldn't view that as a Regular Army increase, but a consolidation of existing forces.
The TA has increased markedly by 7 field regiments, 4 heavy regiments and 3 air defence regiments for the Artillery and 11 armoured regiments for the RAC. Based on approximate manpower requirements, that is 6050 for the armoured units and 6720 for the artillery, on top of ~ 12,000 for the additional 20 odd TA infantry battalions. Additional supporting units and the 20 HSF battalions will likely take the TA up from 76,661 in 1989 or even the 90,000 outlined for 1990 in DEFE 70/1844 Home Defence Reinforcements and Reserves, linked in my post here: viewtopic.php?t=361&start=140
Looking at those numbers, there isn't going to be much change out of 125,000 men in the TA, which puts it around 1956 levels.
RAF
The TLW RAF on the other hand has 25 tactical fighter squadrons at home and 11 in RAFG, plus 13 Royal Auxiliary Air Force squadrons, compared to 1989's 21 at home and 12 in RAFG. 3 squadrons over 16 years isn't breaking the bank by any stretch of the imagination.
It isn't the RAF.
RN
The Royal Navy's expansion in TLW is pretty unprecedented in peacetime, going to 3 + 2 carriers, 18 + 4 SSN, 10 + 2 cruisers, 23 + 4 destroyers, 42 frigates and 18 + 10 corvettes from 3 carriers, 16 + 2 SSN, 13 destroyers and 29 + 7 frigates.
No eyelids have been batted or even fluttered at the RN increase.
Yet if I mention the possibility of 4-6 Regular Army battalions over 16 years, you'd think I've interrupted the Coronation to give a verbal advertisement for Raid Shadow Legends.
What numbers would be necessary? Between 2400 to 3600 men.
The manpower is there, given British unemployment rates aren't going to be extremely different over 1989-2005.
Take 1997, for example, lying nicely in the middle of the 16 year period.
British Population ~58,307,320. Males 20-24 ~ 1.7 million, 25-29 2.1 million and 30-34 2.35 million. Unemployment rate was 6.9%, and total was just under 2 million.
A battalion worth of men translates to 1 in 10,500 adult men alone.
Total in HM Armed Forces is likely to be 60,000-70,000 for the RN, 100,000 for the RAF and 155,000-160,000 for the Army, plus 90,000-100,000 TA, 12,000-15,000 RAF and 32,000 RN. Round up the reserves to 150,000 and the regular forces to 320,000-330,000 and the total is 470,000-480,000.
1996/97 @ British Army recruiting was 15,522 and 1997/98 was 15,379. That is likely to be a tad higher here with greater budgets and the higher social cachet of defence and arms.
The cost isn't significant, nor are the equipment/capital equipment requirements quite as egregious as assembly lines of new cruisers or 638 Challenger 2s for the TA.
What does seem to be the issue is that 1989 is written in stone as a baseline for certain armies. For us, it is the PoD and the year everything changed; from the in-universe perspective, it was 'merely Tuesday'.
So I humbly suggest that, if the Arms Plot viewed 57 as a bare minimum, and the purse strings are opening up across the board, there might be scope for some groats to be grudgingly rolled towards the Regular Army PBI in addition to the largesse poured over the TA as if it were the Prodigal Son.
My coda to that is that, if World War Three happens, keeping Regular battalions on Home Defence or garrison missions when there is now a conscript pipeline opening up may not be the best utilisation of trained professional manpower.
Re: After the Last War: Chapter 4
Simon,
I will post tonight but personal issues were dire in 1989/90.
The MARILYN Report - Manning And Recruiting IN the Lean Years of the Nineties
The report saw a demographic trough developing in the ‘90’s, less young people to join the forces, in particular the Army. The report forecast the trend and developed some steps to combat it. Now with a continuing Cold War we can postulate the events of 1989/90 saw a significant one time shift in Eastern European populations that were able to escape before the Iron Curtain was again closed. This may help (IRL it did) the demographic trough in the UK. Reading Patrick Delaforce’s books (numerous Div histories from WWII) I was struck to see a whole Pl in a Bn of The Rifle Brigade were all Eastern European in NWE.
The RAC had to disband all the ATGW (FV438 SWINGFIRE) due to lack of personnel
The Infantry, the Light Div Bns, some were short by a Coy or more. The same for The Queen’s Regt and RRF
I am still working on the ORBAT and I will notate my thought process for Bernard. Hopefully everything will be clear once I am finished and it’s approved.
I will get back with my thought process on the TA
I will post tonight but personal issues were dire in 1989/90.
The MARILYN Report - Manning And Recruiting IN the Lean Years of the Nineties
The report saw a demographic trough developing in the ‘90’s, less young people to join the forces, in particular the Army. The report forecast the trend and developed some steps to combat it. Now with a continuing Cold War we can postulate the events of 1989/90 saw a significant one time shift in Eastern European populations that were able to escape before the Iron Curtain was again closed. This may help (IRL it did) the demographic trough in the UK. Reading Patrick Delaforce’s books (numerous Div histories from WWII) I was struck to see a whole Pl in a Bn of The Rifle Brigade were all Eastern European in NWE.
The RAC had to disband all the ATGW (FV438 SWINGFIRE) due to lack of personnel
The Infantry, the Light Div Bns, some were short by a Coy or more. The same for The Queen’s Regt and RRF
I am still working on the ORBAT and I will notate my thought process for Bernard. Hopefully everything will be clear once I am finished and it’s approved.
I will get back with my thought process on the TA